Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 23:08:30 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: venting about irresponsible drivers
In-Reply-To: <CAG0-GTxKx89ou2zcBgB4mQpDSzGq1x1-f5+fDMqEUREihO2aSw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
You make some very valid points here. To go a step further the minimal required insurance way beyond simple vehicle or property protection not just for you but for others involved. It is becoming more common that for injuries that "may" have happened near an automobile regular medical insurance will look to get the auto policy to pay. This can be from a simple slip on ice while getting in or out or maybe even walking by. Have a vehicle fire that spreads to someone or something else and guess what, that is on your dime. Someone injured on a camping site your occupying and they may be yours also. That's a possible difference between usual auto and real RV policies.
A person lying about fault goes way beyond who is paying. Many states require motor vehicle accidents to be filed with the state. In NY this is required for total damages of $1,000 or more. Going beyond the payout having an "At Fault" accident can hurt your rates or insurance opportunities and stay on your "record" for many years. This should be challenged. Driving camcorders are becoming increasingly low cost. I am considering one. Nothing works better for testimony than pictures and video.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Roger Whittaker
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:24 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: venting about irresponsible drivers
dear under insured
the topic of insurance comes up on this email list more often than not -
item 1 is - i got cheap insurance by telling underwriter that my van is from cheap insurance state/location rather than expensive insurance state/location -
good for paying premiums -- bad when incident happens -
item 2 is - i dont require insurance of such and such a type cause my vehicle is never involved in such and such circumstances
Insurance has one singular value - to be used to pay when such circumstances arise
item 3 is - they dont understand my vehicle is a classic but i drive it every day -
so get an agreed value policy and pay for a survey or accredited appraiser to value
Item 4 is -insurance is a rip off big premiums paid to no value for me
insurance by very nature is of no use til an event happens -it is up to you to describe carefully to the underwriter exactly what and how vehicle will be used so they can find or write a policy suitable for your purposes - when it comes to exclusions make sure you only ask for a deductible you can afford - accept the rest of the policy with as few exclusions as possible - read the policy when you get it - if you disagree with a term or exclusion
- get it sorted - make sure the payout agreed upon will cover the expenses required to achieve the goal - 1. they will have great lawyers - 2. they understand the business of insurance better than you 3. you will get what you paid for 4. telling lies to save money hurts you in time of need and hurts everyone in higher policy costs cause your needs cost more than was allocated at time of purchase 5. insurance company has been doing insurance and attending continuing education for years - you have spent 20 minutes in the office and 10 minutes thinking about them in a negative way - who do you think will be better prepared for the meeting ?
6. it gets worse-- in BC Canada we have government run insurance for auto - they make every private insurance company look absolutely angelic -
and if no event happens then you did not "PAY FOR NOTHING " - you paid into a pool that supplied benefits to someone else to whom an event did happen
ps
warren buffett says in his book he wished he had never bought an insurance company because the loss of $$ is unbelievable -
regards
On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 2:31 PM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I do carry comprehensive coverage, just not collision. That is
> because I have looked at statistics, and for older vehicles, fires,
> vandalism, theft and so on are more common than crashes. But now I
> realize that collision insurance is probably worth the price for instances like this.
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Stuart MacMillan
> <stuartmacm@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Well, if that's their story then their insurance company will go
> > after yours for payment, which will be a lot more than your $2000
> > damage. It will impact your policy record instead of theirs, which
> > is why they are lying about this.
> >
> > Comprehensive coverage with a $500 or $1000 deductible is cheap, and
> > then your agent will sort it out with their agent. This will likely
> > happen anyway, so be prepared to fight.
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > Behalf Of David McNeely
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 11:07 AM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: venting about irresponsible drivers
> >
> > Well, for those of us who haven't found a need for one of the newer
> > type phones (I do have a cell phone, but it is an old style flip
> > phone,
> without
> > all the newer gadgetry) these approaches don't work. I didn't know
> > that everyone emerges snapping pictures of everything, and recording
> > everything. I guess that's what I get for being an old fart.
> >
> > And I never imagined that someone who says repeatedly that an
> > accident
> was
> > her fault, and who states that her liability insurance will take
> > care of the damages, would then falsify a statement to her insurance
> > company and deny liability. I also learned, regarding that being a felony: Nope.
> > Only if the intent is to defraud THE INSURANCE COMPANY. Defrauding
> > the victim seems to be no big deal.
> >
> > Well, old farts can learn, and I am doing so.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 10:31 AM, PB <pbrattan@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I think the video recording is the best solution. Nowadays,
> > > everyone who has a fender bender comes out with a cell phone snapping pictures.
> > > It's just a normal practice, and is not usually interpreted as
> > > aggressive or accusatory. You can appear to be snapping photos,
> > > but actually recording, and the other party will not even know it.
> > > Even if you should put your phone in your shirt pocket or hold
> > > the phone downward in your hand, the audio will still continue to
> > > record in most of the newer cell phones. I actually never thought
> > > of this myself, but it would be best to check to find out if your
> > > cell phone has limited recording time. In that case you should
> > > have an audio recording app icon easily accessible on your home
> > > screen. They usually have longer
> > recording times.
> > > Patti
> > > 90 Westy automatic
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, August 30, 2016, Greg Childs <Greg@gregorychilds.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The last time I was rear ended I immediately turned on the video
> > > > camera
> > > on
> > > > my smart phone and exited my vehicle. The phone captured my
> > > > description
> > > of
> > > > the situation and other drivers' admission and apology. I
> > > > continued to video record the damage, license plates, documents,
> > > > and the
> driver.
> > > >
> > > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > > Subject: Re: venting about irresponsible drivers
> > > > From: Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@NBNET.NB.CA
> > > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','RNicholl@NBNET.NB.CA');>>
> > > > Date: Mon, August 29, 2016 5:29 pm
> > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM');>
> > > >
> > > > David:
> > > >
> > > > Any chance there are surveillance cameras in the area?
> > > >
> > > > > On 29-Aug-2016, at 18:53, David McNeely
> > > > > <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM
> > > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM');>> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I need to vent. A week ago (last Tuesday afternoon, actually),
> > > > > I took
> > > my
> > > > > 1991Volkswagen Vanagon GL Campmobile out to pick up some
> > > > > furniture. I stopped at a stop sign that controls entry from a
> > > > > ramp into a Y where
> > > two
> > > > > other roads enter. Both of those other roads have curves in
> > > > > their
> > > > approach
> > > > > to the intersection that make the sight distance short.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, I stopped at the sign, then, creeped forward a bit to get
> > > > > a better
> > > > view
> > > > > of oncoming traffic, and stopped again. Just after I stopped
> > > > > the second time, a vehicle hit the camper's rear bumper,
> > > > > thwack!. The damage was minor, a broken bumper on the
> > > > > passenger side rear, a small ding in the D-pillar, two mangled bumper mounts.
> > > > >
> > > > > The other driver and her husband both got out of their small
> > > > > SUV, as my wife and I did from the van. We all surveyed the damage.
> > > > > Their RAV4 had more, the grill, a headlight, a fender, the
> > > > > bumper all being sort of mangled. Their vehicle was about ten
> > > > > feet behind ours, which had been pushed forward by the impact.
> > > > >
> > > > > The other driver was exceedingly apologetic, saying over and
> > > > > over that
> > > > she
> > > > > was extremely sorry that she had hit us, and that she was
> > > > > certain her insurance would take care of the damage. Her
> > > > > husband observed that the damage to our vehicle was minor AND
> > > > > THAT IT WAS QUITE OLD. I pointed
> > > out
> > > > > that being a classic and their being a hot market for these
> > > > > vans, I
> > > would
> > > > > have to fix it. He also said that their insurance would take
> > > > > care of
> > > it,
> > > > > and he pulled out registration papers and insurance card. We
> > > > > exchanged information, and both drove away.
> > > > >
> > > > > The next morning I called her insurance agent, and was
> > > > > referred to the claims department (of State Farm). At first I
> > > > > got the spiel from the adjuster about using the State Farm
> > > > > appraisal system. I listened
> > > politely
> > > > > and observed that I would get estimates from independent body
> > > > > shops. He demurred on that, but then said I would hear back
> > > > > from him later the
> > > same
> > > > > day.
> > > > >
> > > > > An hour later, a different person called me from State Farm to
> > > > > inform
> > > me
> > > > > that liability was denied, as the other driver stated that I
> > > > > had backed into her when she was stopped behind me. No
> > > > > witnesses except
> > > ourselves. I
> > > > > do not carry collision insurance, even on this rather pricey
> > > > > vehicle,
> > > as
> > > > I
> > > > > prefer to drive self insured, expecting to pay my costs if I
> > > > > am at
> > > fault,
> > > > > and to rely on my liability insurance to fix the other driver.
> > > > >
> > > > > But that leaves me with no representation to collect from the
> > > > > other driver. I have considered small claims court. It will
> > > > > cost me about $2K to fix the camper. In court, it would just
> > > > > be my explanation against
> > > the
> > > > > other person's, with the only witnesses being the two drivers
> > > > > and their passengers, both spouses.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice? One thing I learned, despite police admonitions to
> > > > > just exchange information and be on your way, if I ever have
> > > > > another
> > > > accident, I
> > > > > definitely will call in a patrol officer.
> > > > >
> > > > > mcneely
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > *♪♫**♥**♫♪♪♫**♥**♫♪♪♫**♥**♫♪♪♫**♥**♫♪*
> > > If it's not on my iPhone, it doesn't exist...
> > > ●▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬♥▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬●
> > >
> >
> >
>
--
roger whittaker 604.414.6266
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