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Date:         Thu, 8 Sep 2016 14:04:27 +0000
Reply-To:     Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject:      Re: Ignition Switches and Hot Start Relay and Starter Motors
              (long)
Comments: To: Larry Alofs <lalofs@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <CA+r=Jhp=1HygPWrmqfyhXEmL+ZjGGqB5oZ5xgrDt+2L2v5Z0rA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Thanks, Larry.  The relay kit I have in my hand is the one from Bus Depot: http://www.busdepot.com/wr1 On the side of the relay, it says, "12 V  20/30 A".  Hopefully this is adequate to do the job. Rich

From: Larry Alofs <lalofs@GMAIL.COM> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2016 6:33 AM Subject: Re: Ignition Switches and Hot Start Relay and Starter Motors (long) Rich,   I've had this problem on multiple vans before I started installing relays.  We used to carry a hammer to hit the starter while someone else was twisting the key.  I later learned that you could use a broomstick inserted over the back wheel.   Do the relay, but try to get one that can handle inductive loads without the contacts welding together.  (Bad thing)

If you search back thru the archives you will find this discussed many times.

Larry A.

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Hi gang, > OK...details first...85 Tintop, Manual Tranny, 235,000 miles.  Subie EJ > 2.2 conversion done 15,000 miles ago at California Westys in San Diego. > Always garaged, but only 1 mile from salty ocean. > > I've had starting problems.  Essentially "turn key, nothing happens". > This means no crank of motor.  No click, no nothing.  But sit there and > wait for 10-30 minutes...magically starts....so far. > > Mostly has happened after a long freeway run, several hours.  Would pull > into lunch spot, eat lunch (30 minutes) so now car has cooled off, start up > car, no problem; go across street to get gas; try to start car; turn key, > nothing happens. Wait 10 minutes---starts and runs perfectly. > So....I first thought this must be ignition switch problem.  Bought one at > Napa, the only game in town.  Was happy, got me back home.  But problem > reappeared.  If I would apply PRESSURE tangentially to key in switch (not > axially), a lot of times I would get immediate fire and start. > > OK...went to a Meyle-Brand switch from Van-Cafe....I figured THAT will > solve it....good ole German engineering. > As a backup, I also saw that Bus Depot had the Kostal-Brand ignition > switch; rated as TOP QUALITY OEM; so I bought one for backup.  Have NOT > installed it...yet. > > So currently Meyle-Brand switch is in van; went to mechanic today to fix a > broken shifter bushing; they tried to start car...wouldn't....banged on > starter with rubber mallet...it started.  He noted that when key was > turned, control panel would light up; turn key to Start and control panel > lights would dim, indicating a heavy suck of electrical power, but still > NOTHIN. > > So now the problem seems to shift to STARTER.  When the guys did the Subie > installation, they installed a BRAND NEW Hi-Torque starter from Kennedy > (KEP).  This is to handle the higher compression of a Subie motor vs. a 1.9 > waterboxer.  And apparently there are some problems with the KEP starter > motor.  Converter was a little frustrated about that; but mostly "whirring" > starter problems and intermittent at that.  MY problem is NO NOTHIN. > > I've looked carefully at the Kostal switch; it's black on the bottom, > white on top (all the others are all white).  I used my 5X eyeloupe....yes, > it appears that the white is just Nylon, while the black is filled with a > little fibreglass, maybe 10% or so, just a guess; still is probably nylon. > But needed rigidity and better resistance against heat; glass is perfect > for that. > > I read on Samba where high current loads make things HOT fast in the > ignition switch; the plastic "melts" a little each time, and the contacts > gradually start shifting...and moving away from each other.  This makes > sense; is this why TOP BRAND Kostal has black glass-filled nylon on the > lower half; more resistant to heat and stiffer and stronger and a little > more expensive? > So how to solve this mess...One option is the "Hot Start Relay". > Actually, I bought a kit.  The idea is that you don't run all that amperage > through the starter switch, and in addition you don't go through many feet > of 30 year old wires and connections.  Switch triggers a relay; the relay > provides HEFTY current to starter solenoid.  This makes sense to me. > Biggest downside is that it adds one more possible failure point; and > harder to diagnose; and of course some modest additional expense...but hey, > we own Vanagons so that's not a big deal! > At this point, what I'm leaning toward is use the Kostal ignition switch > and the Hot Start Relay setup. > Sorry for the long post, but headed out in a week for a 5,000 mile from > San Diego to Wisconsin (family reunion) and the only backup I can think of > is to always park downhill so as to bump the starter....but that's no fun > for sleeping. > > Rich > San Diego >


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