Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (November 2016, week 4)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:20:47 -0500
Reply-To:     Eric Wunrow <VW@ERICWUNROW.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Eric Wunrow <VW@ERICWUNROW.COM>
Subject:      Re: Mechanical/Brakes/1984 Westy
Comments: To: Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <CAFdLW6mLF2OfoNQuUnNe2=5Fa5M4qbSixUairh5nDHSjrRMNKg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Thanks, Dan, and apologies for my tardy reply...

The clutch pedal seems fine, is there any particular feeling I should look for?

We replaced the MC with a new one from Van Cafe, and the problem is identical.

At bottom, here's an update I posted on the Samba… apologies for the lengthy post, but after much unrelated speculation there it became necessary!

Eric Eric Wunrow Pictures 303. 988. 8717

VW@EricWunrow.com (for this list's emails) EW@EricWunrow.com (for private messages)

On Nov 19, 2016, at 6:12 PM, Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Eric, > > as I read your description of the problem... I think you have an internal leak at the brake master cylinder.. baring any visual leaks that you can see on connectors, brake lines etc etc...a coincidence.. > > now a question... > > how's the feel on the clutch pedal? the clutch master cylinder shares the fluid/reservoir with the brake... > > good luck > > dan

While I really appreciate everyone's replies, it's worth another, and expanded, rundown: -- We have lived for 40 months in this, our first bus (early '84 Vanagon), after a medical catastrophe to my wife took everything and forced a major decision to recover our lives and my company; -- The brakes were all serviced 36,000 miles ago, in our former home of Denver and we're in Miami now, new rotors and drums, new wheel cylinders, new brake lines, and new outer front bearings, and the job was done correctly. Braking has been perfect and straight since. I think he did the inner bearings also but am not certain; -- Fast-forwarding to two weeks ago, we went a VW shop north of here with moderate bearing noise. I had him replace all four front bearings, he said later they were made by SKF, we discovered yesterday the outer bearings were in fact made by National Bearing...; -- The inner bearings were pitted in a manner consistent with having been wet and then the vehicle parked too long; -- He did not unbolt the caliper halves nor remove brake lines... but I do not know how he hung the calipers. Caliper bolts were properly torqued apparently, we re-checked them yesterday and they're *at least* 133 ft. lbs. as required; -- The work was done by an independent shop owned by a seemingly-trustworthy VW mechanic I met camping a few days prior, simply to check bearings. I maintain our bus diligently but had some doubts with him as work proceeded -- though it was too late to stop him and carry on elsewhere; -- The instant I touched the brakes after new bearings were installed, the pedal went to the floor. This was within 10 feet of backing up; -- In a two-mile test drive, the old, re-peened (yes, I know...) retainer nuts had come loose and with full steer there was a nasty grinding sound. But... the brakes hadn't worked properly before the sound; -- Mechanic reset the nuts, did a front bleed per my request, sent us down the road with bad brakes and retainer nuts, and we drove 80 miles to here with front wheels still miraculously and properly tight; -- He ignored my texts telling him we still had brake issues, then got pissy and claimed I'd said I had brake issues prior. Another lie...; -- We did several thorough bleeds here following the RR-LR-RF-LF protocol and it was always the same -- long pedal, then short, then somewhere between -- and with each bleed there's still lessening amounts of air left; -- There's an almost-shocking amount of front pad left and the rotor seems properly centered; -- We replaced the master cylinder with new one from Van Cafe, and bled again until no air and clear fluid. We also did a minor bleed of the new MC and no obvious air came out. My overriding feeling is there's still air in there, but we're NOT losing any fluid; -- The vehicle actually does slow well under braking and doesn't pull to one side at all. But the pedal pressure and distance change with almost every application.

I don't believe for a minute it is happenstance that anything coincidentally failed when the brakes were great going in -- and now are all over the place. It may be worth noting my friend helping me is a great shade tree wrench with over 50 years' experience, and though I'm not I am no dummy (most of the time, Wink).

We have not removed the drums but the emergency brake slows the bus as normal at moderate speed, and there's no fluid leaks. The fluid level was still at Full before the bearing work. I think there may perhaps be trapped air, or maybe a vacuum leak, or a brake bias issue, but pedal pressure is consistent when bleeding.

A positively brilliant friend has suggested back flushing the lines. I think I agree.

Perhaps the BIGGEST CLUE: The brake pedal pressure is solid as can be until we start the vehicle.

Sorry for the long post, and Thanks Again for your help!


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.