Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 08:58:48 -0800
Reply-To: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: VW says it (yawn) again...the bus
In-Reply-To: <CAFnDXk2k1Bx3zax_jR9O2xYy6Bma=sudShsExqORyHu2GkfxRg@mail.gmail.com>
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High energy density batteries are made from expensive materials, not dirty materials. Elements like lithium and cobalt in particular, and represent 60% of the $/kWh cost. I found this an interesting read:
https://qnovo.com/82-the-cost-components-of-a-battery/
Energy storage is not cheap unless it’s carbon based or water behind a dam.
The Nissan Leaf is available here for a $169/mo two year lease with a $3380 first payment ($2000 down payment plus security deposit). You can buy it for $33,500 or so. Nobody would buy a small, limited range car like this at this price since the batteries will likely fail before you pay it off, but the lease is subsidized to help Nissan meet the CAFE standards, and the future of that regulation is in doubt.
I might actually consider leasing one if it wasn’t so ugly! And boy, is it ugly. http://www.bellevuenissan.com/bellevue-nissan-leaf-cars
Stuart
From: Jim Felder [mailto:jim.felder@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:33 PM
To: Stuart MacMillan; vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
Subject: Re: VW says it (yawn) again...the bus
I'm sure the batteries are expensive because thats the way they are priced. Probably not all that expensive. Look at an internal combustion engine... the fact that you can even afford one is almost preposterous, it's so exact and complex. Batteries are much simpler, though probably made of some really dirty materials. Electric motors are cheap too, relatively. The recovery systems might be expensive though but won't stay that way once they become commonplace.
Jim
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 7:24 PM Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey, we are almost into the next Friday!
This should be true if it wasn't for the cost of the batteries, and it’s why dealers hate electric vehicles because they require almost no maintenance. Look at Tesla, they don't have physical service centers, they are in the cloud.
There goes the dealers' biggest profit center and the jobs with it.
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Jim Felder
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:23 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: VW says it (yawn) again...the bus
If you left out a car's transmission, internal combustion engine, steering gear to the driver, brakes, instruments and other systems that keep the driver informed, they should be dirt cheap, right?
: )
Jim
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:20 PM OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
> BT
>
> I "Sorta" 2nd that ~ Would @Least be nice to have it be
> OwnerFixable ~
>
> While I Do ReallyLike the AllElectric prospects of this VW, I do Hope
> that VW
>
> will market a Non-SelfDriving Version & Price it such that the Masses
> are able
>
> to Afford It ~
>
> ORR ~ DeanB
>
>
> On 9 Jan , 2017, at 8:56 PM, Bruce Todd wrote:
>
> > I would rather have the new concept van fix itself than drive itself.
> >
> > BT
> >
>
