Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 12:07:48 -0800
Reply-To: Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Regarding raised bar
In-Reply-To: <8C548890-13E3-48FB-88DF-C09939A3EE77@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Dear Raised Bar
I have nothing to say about the cost of investments, what an investment
should be defined as or what one person has spent to stay current - or not
spent to stay original - or indeed i have nothing to say regarding anyones
comprehension of the fair market value of any item listed for sale - Great
firseside chatter though :)
What i am pointing out in my statements is that a list member posted to the
list first as a courtesy - that they were offering their item for sale and
asking an ask price of $$$$ xxx.00
Right out of the gate list members started to comment as if the Vendor list
member had just informed us that they would be bringing Clifford Olson to
every camp out -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Olson
I mentioned that i find it remarkable that many times this list has hosted
discussions about what idiots adjusters are because they refer to the Blue
Book when assigning a value to the wreck - Dont they realize - blah blah
blah
I mentioned i find it remarkable that the acidity of remarks are not
community building --
In return the statement received
1. A lot of Supportive remarks -
2. A lot of remarks about why "i bought my van and how i use it "
3. A lot of remarks about how My van isnt an investment
4. and a couple of remarks about how any ask that is above what the
community thinks is too high then the vendor has left them selves open to
remarks of any ph and in fact should expect acerbic as the benchmark --
SO to be clear ---
Personally I am agnostic to what people do or do not get for their vans -
why they buy them or why they sell them - how many "mods" thye have made or
how they have maintained all original by replacing with aftermarket parts
bought at any number of vendors --
I do support people who want to buy a vehicle getting the best possible
vehicle at the best possible price upon reception of full disclosure of all
relative facts about the vehicle -
I do support the seller getting as much as they possibly can for the
vehicle upon disclosure of all material facts about the vehicle -
I DO NOT SUPPORT people commenting that -- THESE SELLERS ARE DREAMING - or
CRAZY or what ever --
Sellers dream as much as buyers dream and the graph points cross each other
at various times when agreement to sell for and buy at are reached -
unfortunately there is no Vanagon data base of sold for prices detailing
how ling on the market at what ever price and so on - other than what
GOWESTY decimates and that is about as transparent as any retailer or
person can be --
regards
On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Stacy Schneider <vwcrewman@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Price is aggressive, I know who built it and I imagine he has that
> plus into it. A tasteful job as far as changes, but not a true Westy and
> people like things that are standard as from the factory. You can always
> get parts or know how it is constructed when it came from Westfalia.
> We always post these when they hit a new benchmark. The true
> question is what does it really sell for? Most people are hesitant to post
> the final price, for whatever their reason is. It helps to adjust the
> market when we know what a high end van sells for.
>
> Stacy
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 2, 2017, at 10:56 AM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >
> > I bought my camper to use for camping. I could afford it, and it was in
> > decent shape. I expected to spend money on it. I did not expect
> inflation
> > on its value to earn money for me. Were it an investment, I would have
> > declared to cost to be a tax deduction, and then would expect to pay
> taxes
> > on the difference (less expenses) when I sold the investment, just as I
> do
> > with other investments.
> >
> > When I sell it, I will probably get more than I paid for it, and
> > considerably more than it cost new in 1991. The used Kubota tractor I am
> > considering buying exhibits the same phenomenon. The price, vetted on
> > several sources, is about double what it cost new in 1995. That is
> called
> > inflation, and on quality used tractors, might be called hyperinflation.
> > That is what we are seeing with VW campers.
> >
> > Is one that the current owner has spent a lot of money on "worth" what
> the
> > owner wants for it? I guess it may be to someone, but right now, as many
> > of them as there are around still, though they are cult vehicles, they
> are
> > not yet collector's vehicles. Collector's vehicles are kept in protected
> > conditions, driven only for show. They mostly are in, or the owner
> attempts
> > to keep them in, new or like new condition. Originality is important.
> > Most of us use our VW campers, and if there is a modification we find
> > useful, we implement it. They have mostly had many after market parts
> > installed. Restoration is not the same thing as original, at least
> > according to the collector vehicle market, and is worth less than
> original.
> >
> > Well, here's to VW campers. I will be using mine heavily starting this
> > spring.
> >
> > mcneely
> >
> >> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 9:21 AM, bernie <1234bjs@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I agree with Jim. Just because we are a very close community does not
> mean
> >> that when
> >> I go to sell mine I can ask 60,000 and hope to get support from this
> >> community due to the fact that they don't make them anymore. It is
> worth as
> >> has been said, what someone will pay. Maybe this one is worth what is
> asked
> >> but I don't think so. I would certainly hope that we could share
> opinions
> >> on these matters without being accused of not being "being helpful".
> >> I have just enjoyed reading "Small Wonder: A History of Volkswagen'".
> Part
> >> of the appeal of Volkswagen has always been that they were affordable
> and
> >> the vehicle of people. I defend his right to spend and modify and ask
> >> whatever he wants for it. However if you are saying Roger that you don't
> >> think it appropriate that some of us comment on a price such as this I
> >> would most certainly disagree. No one really knows what a vehicle like
> this
> >> is worth on the used vanagon market. It's the most expensive one I have
> >> seen.
> >> As far as this seller getting his asking price increasing the value of
> the
> >> average vanagon I don't think so. Did you benefit from increased prices
> >> when you sold yours Roger? Did you reacquire one?
> >> I think it perhaps safe to say that most of us love our vanagons for the
> >> simplicity and utilitarian aspect.
> >> Would I love mine anymore if I spent 70,000 dollars on him.
> >> No I would not. I would be afraid of altering who he really is.
> >> Secondly would I expect to see that 70,000 dollars added to price when I
> >> sell it?
> >> No I would not.
> >> Roger, looking at what we spend on our vehicles calling them an
> investment
> >> is a bit of joke.
> >> Yes the value of them may be increasing but
> >> they don't meet my definition of investment.
> >> "The action or process of investing money for profit or material
> result".
> >> We love them, we drive and we fix them.
> >> They are not cheap to keep on the road.
> >> Most of us do not buy them for investments.
> >> You have owned two Roger have they been investments for you? Please
> share
> >> how they have been investments?
> >> Perhaps you have some secrets to share with
> >> us that we could all benefit from.
> >> We are a helpful and supportive community made up of very independent
> >> people it will be a sad day indeed when we don't feel we can share an
> >> opinion for fear of not being "helpful".
> >>
> >> Bernie
> >>
>
--
roger whittaker 604.414.6266
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