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Date:         Mon, 10 Apr 2017 10:05:04 -0700
Reply-To:     James Vogl <jamesvogl@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         James Vogl <jamesvogl@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hatchback struts
Comments: To: Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca>
In-Reply-To:  <1E2F00FE-9CF7-4001-8D67-7133D80ADCFA@shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Thanks for the tip on the aluminum tubing. Yeah, I think I can probably find something... I just didn't have anything in my garage that readily worked.

For me in California, the struts shipped free (but I pay California sales tax of ~8%). I'm happy to order a pair for you and forward to you in the land above, if you think the shipping would be more reasonable. I'll shoot you an email off list.

As for the eyelet being on the shaft vs cylinder... Well, on the previous struts that were on my van, the eyelet was on the shaft side that connected to the "door jam." The socket was on the cylinder side that attached to the hatch side. So I assumed this was the way they came from the factory (?), since this matched the description when I looked up the stock struts on LiftSupportsDepot. It looks like this on my van: https://goo.gl/photos/LD52Efx1VWnw1PE56

But, I have seen them the other way around. I think the GW struts are like this. So, I think they work either way, regardless of which way is "original." I am not sure how larger diameter struts would effect fitment here, though, if at all.

The one difference in functionality I know of is that, if you're using an added slip-tube support, with the shaft pointing down, the slip-tube automatically slips down into place when you fully open the hatch; to close, you have to hold the slip tube in position for the first inch or so of closing to get it to ride over the cylinder and from there it will stay in place. With the cylinder side pointing down, you manually move the slip-tube into position upon opening; but closing doesn't require holding the tube.... If any of that makes sense. Personal preference, I suppose. I don't know for sure that LiftSupportsDepot can swap eyelets/sockets on either end. Probably?

James V 86 Syncro Westy

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca> wrote:

> For my use, I think the 250lb struts will be just the ticket. And thanks > for the end connector clarification. > > I mentioned in my message a while back, about Simons strong struts and > how they just couldn't quite hold up both tire carrier and bike carrier, > until I moved the tire mount position on the carrier. Well, before I got > around to modifying the carrier, I installed an aluminum tube section to do > the old hatch prop hack. > > And yes, his struts had larger diameter cylinders so the tubing just > barely fit between strut and van when hatch closed. In fact, it rubbed on > hatch jam a tad. Wrapped a turn or two of electrical tape around the tubing > to reduce the effects of the rub. > > Long story just to say that we did get a tubing prop on the strut to work > with the oversized cylinders. I can't recall what size of aluminum tubing > it was, ID and OD. > > Oh and another thing, I wonder why our vanagon parts and accessories > vendors haven't done all this extra strong strut leg work before? > > Thanks again James, > > Alistair > > > > On Apr 9, 2017, at 11:02 PM, James Vogl <jamesvogl@gmail.com> wrote: > > Glad it was helpful, Allistair. My guess is that there's a higher force > option out there, and I know there are some fully-custom and reduceable > force set-ups available, but at under 30 bucks each, these turned out to be > a nice option at a really good price. > > To clarify on the connector ends: > > The ones I bought come standard with steel 10mm ball cups at BOTH ends. > (these are different than the nylon sockets/clips on the stock struts, but > they are compatible and recommended/required on 200lb+force struts). > Anyway, since, this cup/socket works with the ball on the hatch side, you > just have to have them change out the other end to fit over the "van" > side's clevis/pin connection. So, I was instructed to state in the comments > section at checkout: "Please customize: Eyelet Hole=8mm for the shaft", and > voila. Lou also suggested that I shoot him an email about the customization > after the order, just to be sure. (just use the contact link on the website) > > Again, here's the struts I bought > https://www.liftsupportsdepot.com/lift-supports-depot- > st200m1-250-gas-charged-lift-support-strut61083w/ > > If you do a search on that site for STOCK Vanagon struts, you will see the > specs for the stock struts and you can compare. > https://www.liftsupportsdepot.com/shopby/1986/volkswagen/ > vanagon/campmobile-van-camper-3door/ > > Hope this helps. Let me know if I can answer any other questions. > > James V > 86 Syncro Westy > > On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 10:00 PM, Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca> wrote: > >> This is great info james, thanks very much for posting. >> >> Just to be clear, when ordering you specify the ball and clevis end set >> up? >> >> Cheers >> >> Alistair >> >> >> >> On Apr 9, 2017, at 9:44 PM, James Vogl <jamesvogl@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I just installed a set of 250lb force struts from LiftSupportsDepot. Lou >> seems to be the owner and is fairly responsive via email. 250lbs seems to >> be about the max force they carry that will fit the Vanagon. (but perhaps >> he can get you something custom). The higher pressure factory strut I >> believe to be 140lbs. The heavy duty struts from GoWesty are 150lbs. Here's >> what I bought: >> >> Part #: ST200M1-250 >> Force: 250lbs >> Extended length: 20" >> Compressed length: 12" >> Body connector: 10mm ball socket cup >> Shaft connector: 8mm eyelet hole >> Total cost: $60 w/ CA tax, free shipping >> >> These are nice beefy struts, with larger diameter body/shaft. They come >> standard w/ steel ball/socket ends on both sides, which are different than >> factory, but work fine for the ball side. You have to specify an eyelet for >> the shaft side (no extra charge). >> >> So, these *just* support my loaded (more on that below) hatch in the >> fully open position. It takes just a small amount of pressure to pull the >> hatch down from there, and it will not stay open at any in-between >> position. Overall, though, I'm super pleased. I can actually open the hatch >> now with all my crap on it, whereas before I had to remove everything! >> >> Still, I'd be nervous bent over the engine, so I'm thinking I'll use some >> sort of slip-over safety stop, like the tube-over-the-strut method. (These >> struts are larger in diameter, though, so the 3/4" PVC I was using on the >> stock struts won't fit. And a larger 1" PVC has too large an O.D. to fit in >> the channel when closed.) I was thinking a thinner-walled metal tube >> instead. Or...? >> >> With everything removed from the rack (but rack still attached), it does >> take some effort to close the hatch, but it's certainly do-able for someone >> of moderate strength/weight (I'm a small guy). Others may have more >> difficulty. In this config, the hatch will *just* stay open with only one >> of the 250lb struts installed. So, for the majority of the time that I >> don't have a full load, I may swap back one of my old stock struts on one >> side, for a happy medium. >> >> Back to my full load: >> 1 Gary Lee custom Multi Purpose Rack: ~30lbs (? - just a guess, don't wan >> to take it off to weigh it) >> 2 Yakima Boa Mounts + fork mounts: ~8lbs (?) >> 1 Scepter gas can + mount + 3 gallons gas: 30 lbs >> 2 bikes: 45 lbs >> 2 tie dow straps: ~2lbs >> Total: ~115lbs >> >> Removing the stuts, then supporting the hatch vertically with 2x4 at the >> strut connection point, the weight supported by the 2x4 is ~230lbs. So in >> my case, the total strut force to hatch weight ratio is about 2.2:1. This >> would vary depending how the load is dispersed. >> >> Pics: https://goo.gl/photos/hLRmCUX2ysAouMHD6 >> >> James V >> 86 Syncro Westy >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:05 PM, Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> My friend Simon bought some 1250 N struts from Germany for the similar >>> reason. They're great, lifts his spare tire rack and bike rack ( with tire >>> and bike) that I made for him. >>> >>> Without anything on the hatch it's hard to close. >>> >>> Unfortunately the German source has dried up, but I mention it so you >>> will know that 1250N is strong enough for a good load on hatch. >>> >>> Oh, and before anyone asks, it's been almost three years now with the >>> struts and no adverse effect noted on the hatch. >>> >>> I've been looking for similar struts but not found any yet. >>> >>> Alistair >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > On Mar 28, 2017, at 7:24 PM, Roman Haag <romanhaag@YMAIL.COM> wrote: >>> > >>> > I recently got a Gary Lee multipurpose rack, which has my spare, a gas >>> can, and a hi-lift jack on it. >>> > >>> > I need some stronger struts and am having a hard time finding info >>> about them. Does anyone hear have any experience with them and could >>> possibly recommend me some? >>> > >>> > All of the GoWesty/Bus Depot ones sound good, but they don't really >>> give nay specific information. >>> > >>> > I've found these but I'm not even sure they'll fit. I know the >>> Vanagon ones compress to 11.75", as well. >>> > http://www.siraweb.com/gas-prop-c16-23835 >>> > >>> > Any help is appreciated. I'd hate to be the guy responsible for our >>> local Vdub mechanic getting hurt by a hatchback ;) >>> > >>> > Roman >>> >> >> >


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