Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 14:39:18 -0400
Reply-To: Roman Haag <romanhaag@YMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Roman Haag <romanhaag@YMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hatchback struts
In-Reply-To: <CAJbRvRPHg9eEV=r5T2Vp2Q_s=w_U=vAm1morVWdzCsaXR1SwbA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thanks James. And no, that was all Greek to me. But it might be useful info for someone else so I'll weight it π
Sent from someone's plumbing
> On Apr 10, 2017, at 13:14, James Vogl <jamesvogl@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds good, Roman. Don't forget, if you "weigh" your hatch, that it's not a 1:1 ratio because of the strut angle (and whatever other physics hocus pocus happens). I'm using two 250lb struts (so, 500lbs of strut?) to support my ~230lb hatch. The angle of the strut is about 33ΒΊ, in case that means something to somebody smart.
>
> This method of "weighing" the hatch with a bathroom scale was requested by Lou at LiftSupportsDepot so he could help estimate my needs. And based on my hatche's 230lb weight, his suggestion was actually to go with the 200lb struts (total 400lbs?). But having researched some real-world experiences, including Allistair's helpful info about Simon's 1250N struts, as well as other's with the GW 150lb struts, 200lbs seemed much too low. Which is why I went with the 250lb, the highest that fit. And even these are marginal.
>
> Good luck!
>
> James V
> 86 Syncro Westy
>
>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Roman Haag <romanhaag@ymail.com> wrote:
>> James, they haven't given me any links or other info. All mine is second hand through a salesman.
>>
>> Had some unexpected expenses this month so I may not get these as soon as I would like. But I'll definitely share.
>> Thanks for your help. These specifics are really what I have been looking for.
>> I think I'll weigh it today the way you (?) mentioned...with a 2x4 and s bathroom scale.
>> I'm interested in this number. So far I've only been speculating. I may have more weight on mine than anyone who has contributed here :o
>>
>> Roman
>>
>> Sent from someone's plumbing
>>
>>
>> > On Apr 10, 2017, at 12:43, James Vogl <jamesvogl@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> >
>> > Roman β Yes, the stock struts probably compress a little shorter to ~11.75"
>> > or so. When I was searching the LiftSupportsDepot, I was looking in a range
>> > up to 12.25" compressed, which I think would fit. 12.5" might be too long.
>> > Extended length is less critical, since it just determines how high the
>> > hatch open. I would think anywhere between 19"-21" would be fine.
>> >
>> > The strut body on the 250lb struts I bought have the same diameter as the
>> > one's you're considering of 22mm / ~.87 inches. These fit easily within the
>> > jam, and you might even be go up to ~1". The problem, in my case, was the
>> > outside diameter of the 1" PVC tube I was using was a bit too large
>> > (~1.3"?).
>> >
>> > I should mention that with the thicker 10mm shaft of the new struts, I adde
>> > a washer to push the eyelet/clevis side of the strut out from the mounting
>> > point (toward the center of the van) by a couple mm. This way, the shaft
>> > more easily clears the mounting area. Let us know how yours turn out.
>> > Maybe I missed it, by I didn't see which adjustable units you're
>> > considering.
>> >
>> > James V
>> > 86 Syncro Westy
>> >
>> >> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 4:48 AM, Roman Haag <romanhaag@ymail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> James, I just got word back that the adjustable struts are:
>> >> "The stroke diameter is 10mm and the cylinder diameter 22mm. "
>> >>
>> >> If my google-fu is correct that is nearly a 3/4" strut body. In your
>> >> experience do you think this will fit in the channel?
>> >>
>> >> Sent from someone's plumbing
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Apr 10, 2017, at 02:02, James Vogl <jamesvogl@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Glad it was helpful, Allistair. My guess is that there's a higher force
>> >>> option out there, and I know there are some fully-custom and reduceable
>> >>> force set-ups available, but at under 30 bucks each, these turned out to
>> >> be
>> >>> a nice option at a really good price.
>> >>>
>> >>> To clarify on the connector ends:
>> >>>
>> >>> The ones I bought come standard with steel 10mm ball cups at BOTH ends.
>> >>> (these are different than the nylon sockets/clips on the stock struts,
>> >> but
>> >>> they are compatible and recommended/required on 200lb+force struts).
>> >>> Anyway, since, this cup/socket works with the ball on the hatch side, you
>> >>> just have to have them change out the other end to fit over the "van"
>> >>> side's clevis/pin connection. So, I was instructed to state in the
>> >> comments
>> >>> section at checkout: "Please customize: Eyelet Hole=8mm for the shaft",
>> >> and
>> >>> voila. Lou also suggested that I shoot him an email about the
>> >> customization
>> >>> after the order, just to be sure. (just use the contact link on the
>> >> website)
>> >>>
>> >>> Again, here's the struts I bought
>> >>> https://www.liftsupportsdepot.com/lift-supports-depot-
>> >> st200m1-250-gas-charged-lift-support-strut61083w/
>> >>>
>> >>> If you do a search on that site for STOCK Vanagon struts, you will see
>> >> the
>> >>> specs for the stock struts and you can compare.
>> >>> https://www.liftsupportsdepot.com/shopby/1986/volkswagen/
>> >> vanagon/campmobile-van-camper-3door/
>> >>>
>> >>> Hope this helps. Let me know if I can answer any other questions.
>> >>>
>> >>> James V
>> >>> 86 Syncro Westy
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 10:00 PM, Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This is great info james, thanks very much for posting.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Just to be clear, when ordering you specify the ball and clevis end set
>> >> up?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Alistair
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Apr 9, 2017, at 9:44 PM, James Vogl <jamesvogl@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I just installed a set of 250lb force struts from LiftSupportsDepot. Lou
>> >>>> seems to be the owner and is fairly responsive via email. 250lbs seems
>> >> to
>> >>>> be about the max force they carry that will fit the Vanagon. (but
>> >> perhaps
>> >>>> he can get you something custom). The higher pressure factory strut I
>> >>>> believe to be 140lbs. The heavy duty struts from GoWesty are 150lbs.
>> >> Here's
>> >>>> what I bought:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Part #: ST200M1-250
>> >>>> Force: 250lbs
>> >>>> Extended length: 20"
>> >>>> Compressed length: 12"
>> >>>> Body connector: 10mm ball socket cup
>> >>>> Shaft connector: 8mm eyelet hole
>> >>>> Total cost: $60 w/ CA tax, free shipping
>> >>>>
>> >>>> These are nice beefy struts, with larger diameter body/shaft. They come
>> >>>> standard w/ steel ball/socket ends on both sides, which are different
>> >> than
>> >>>> factory, but work fine for the ball side. You have to specify an eyelet
>> >> for
>> >>>> the shaft side (no extra charge).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So, these *just* support my loaded (more on that below) hatch in the
>> >> fully
>> >>>> open position. It takes just a small amount of pressure to pull the
>> >> hatch
>> >>>> down from there, and it will not stay open at any in-between position.
>> >>>> Overall, though, I'm super pleased. I can actually open the hatch now
>> >> with
>> >>>> all my crap on it, whereas before I had to remove everything!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Still, I'd be nervous bent over the engine, so I'm thinking I'll use
>> >> some
>> >>>> sort of slip-over safety stop, like the tube-over-the-strut method.
>> >> (These
>> >>>> struts are larger in diameter, though, so the 3/4" PVC I was using on
>> >> the
>> >>>> stock struts won't fit. And a larger 1" PVC has too large an O.D. to
>> >> fit in
>> >>>> the channel when closed.) I was thinking a thinner-walled metal tube
>> >>>> instead. Or...?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> With everything removed from the rack (but rack still attached), it does
>> >>>> take some effort to close the hatch, but it's certainly do-able for
>> >> someone
>> >>>> of moderate strength/weight (I'm a small guy). Others may have more
>> >>>> difficulty. In this config, the hatch will *just* stay open with only
>> >> one
>> >>>> of the 250lb struts installed. So, for the majority of the time that I
>> >>>> don't have a full load, I may swap back one of my old stock struts on
>> >> one
>> >>>> side, for a happy medium.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Back to my full load:
>> >>>> 1 Gary Lee custom Multi Purpose Rack: ~30lbs (? - just a guess, don't
>> >> wan
>> >>>> to take it off to weigh it)
>> >>>> 2 Yakima Boa Mounts + fork mounts: ~8lbs (?)
>> >>>> 1 Scepter gas can + mount + 3 gallons gas: 30 lbs
>> >>>> 2 bikes: 45 lbs
>> >>>> 2 tie dow straps: ~2lbs
>> >>>> Total: ~115lbs
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Removing the stuts, then supporting the hatch vertically with 2x4 at the
>> >>>> strut connection point, the weight supported by the 2x4 is ~230lbs. So
>> >> in
>> >>>> my case, the total strut force to hatch weight ratio is about 2.2:1.
>> >> This
>> >>>> would vary depending how the load is dispersed.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pics: https://goo.gl/photos/hLRmCUX2ysAouMHD6
>> >>>>
>> >>>> James V
>> >>>> 86 Syncro Westy
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:05 PM, Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> My friend Simon bought some 1250 N struts from Germany for the similar
>> >>>>> reason. They're great, lifts his spare tire rack and bike rack ( with
>> >> tire
>> >>>>> and bike) that I made for him.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Without anything on the hatch it's hard to close.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Unfortunately the German source has dried up, but I mention it so you
>> >>>>> will know that 1250N is strong enough for a good load on hatch.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Oh, and before anyone asks, it's been almost three years now with the
>> >>>>> struts and no adverse effect noted on the hatch.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I've been looking for similar struts but not found any yet.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Alistair
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Mar 28, 2017, at 7:24 PM, Roman Haag <romanhaag@YMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I recently got a Gary Lee multipurpose rack, which has my spare, a gas
>> >>>>> can, and a hi-lift jack on it.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I need some stronger struts and am having a hard time finding info
>> >>>>> about them. Does anyone hear have any experience with them and could
>> >>>>> possibly recommend me some?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> All of the GoWesty/Bus Depot ones sound good, but they don't really
>> >>>>> give nay specific information.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I've found these but I'm not even sure they'll fit. I know the
>> >> Vanagon
>> >>>>> ones compress to 11.75", as well.
>> >>>>>> http://www.siraweb.com/gas-prop-c16-23835
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Any help is appreciated. I'd hate to be the guy responsible for our
>> >>>>> local Vdub mechanic getting hurt by a hatchback ;)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Roman
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
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