Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 21:22:13 +0000
Reply-To: Michael Magnani <mfmagnani@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Michael Magnani <mfmagnani@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Valve Adjustment
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR20MB00293BBFE062CFDEC6C57747A0FF0@CY1PR20MB0029.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi Dennis,Sorry for the delay in answering your email.If you recall, I was at my wits end trying to get to the root cause of my hard-starting problem.Mike Miller put me in touch with Detlev and we had a phone conversation that involved him asking a series of troubleshooting questions, all of which I answered in the affirmative. Did you try this? YES. Did you try that? YES.Then he asked me if I had a vacuum gauge installed in the van. YES. He then asked: "When you're trying to start the engine, does the vacuum gauge needle pulsate or does it lie still? I told him that it lies still. He asked if I had ever performed a valve adjustment. NO. With a high degree of confidence, he said, "Adjust the valves and your problem will likely be fixed." I did and the engine started right up, complete with a pulsating vacuum needle while cranking. The one noisy rocker arm was my own fault. Today I found out which one it was, readjusted it and now I have a quiet running engine.I agree with you, Dennis. I would have thought that valves being out of adjustment enough to cause hard starting would have also caused running problem. But that was not the case. For 27 years the van has always run fine.My wife and I are less than a month away from embarking on our 30 day, around the country road trip and I want to thank everyone that helped get this sorted out.Mike M
On Thursday, May 25, 2017 4:05 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
Mike,
I'm kind of at a loss as to how valve adjustment with hydraulic lifters could cause a hot start problem without a running problem. As for clicking after the adjustment there could be a bad lifter, incorrect adjustment, or a valve sticking in the guide. A sticking intake valve could cause a hot start or running issue as that can create a massive vacuum leak. Intake valve problems cause the same symptoms as vacuum leaks and stuck open EGR valves all in one. I know the WaterBoxer does not have EGR but I have worked enough engines that do and know the symptoms when they stick open.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Magnani [mailto:mfmagnani@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 7:33 PM
To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Valve Adjustment
Dennis,
This is the engine that was having warm start problems several months ago. After checking everything I could think of, Mike Miller put me in touch with Detlev. After reviewing all of the steps taken, he suggested that I adjust the valves. Problem solved. My only complaint is that one valve has an audible click now.
To answer your questions: Yes, I'm the original owner and the engine has never been apart- original heads, valves, rocker arms & adjusting screws. The engine has never overheated and the oil & filter changed regularly. I know there are various opinions on adjusting the valves and I wanted to ask the expert. At this point, the engine runs and starts perfectly and we'll be spending the month of July traveling cross-country. Now I just need to adjust out the clicking valve.
Thank you sir.
Mike M
Sent from my iPad
> On May 23, 2017, at 15:40, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have to ask why you went to check or adjust these to begin with? Were you having a problem?
> Is this a true original engine with original heads, valves etc.?
> For the original engines with quality valves and screws, the interface between the two wear in and work harden and if undisturbed with good lubrication will last almost forever. The engineering for hydraulic lifters is to reduce noise, maintenance, consistent valve operation. They should never be touched until a true repair is needed.
> As part of the geometry involved with valve operation, there is a slight offset in the lifting screw hitting the valve stem. This and the reason that three grove keepers are used is the help induce some rotation of to do this right you also need longer push rods. They do make adjustable push rods, both screw end or cut to length.
>
> There is no need or benefit for an extended drive to pump up lifters for adjustment. In fact, better for them to bleed down. After adjusting the valves will be pushed open and you should wait for them to bleed down before starting the engine.
>
> I have found that not all valve clacking issues are lifter problems. Valve deposits including varnish or whatever on the valve stems can cause the valves to stick open. When the head warms up enough for the guide to increase diameter enough for the valve to move freely it will do so and the lifter will then adjust and things go back to working properly. Not too long ago I had an engine that sat for many years get started. After a few runs the intake valves got stuck and in one starting attempt all 4 intake push rods bent and the valves stuck partly open.
>
> Sometimes question like this are better asked before we open things. I know we sometimes like make things last longer but for many things mechanical if it isn’t broken don’t fix it and avoid fixing problems we don’t have. Engine really exist in to conditions, they work and are healthy or not. For the Water Boxer most failures start out as a support system failure or outright abuse. I still have seen one just actually plain wear out and need an overhaul because it just wore out. Even the worn out cases with low oil pressure problems have some history of wrong oil, overheating, abuse, etc.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Michael Magnani
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 3:04 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: 2.1 WBX Valve Adjustment
>
> I've been following the discussion regarding valve adjustment on the 2.1 WBX engine and I was wondering what the conventional wisdom is regarding the following:What's the life expectancy of the valve adjusting screws? Mine are original with 110,000 miles.As far as adjustment technique, I've taken the van out onto the highway to make sure the lifters were pumped up. By the time I've got the van up on the lift, the spark plugs removed and the #1 piston at TDC with the valve covers off, the engine is still warm but not too hot to touch. I backed off the adjusters and then screwed them in 1.5 turns. What is the lists opinion of the Van Cafe Valve Adjuster Lash Cap Kit ? Thanks for any input.Mike M
>
> Valve Adjuster Lash Cap Kit | Valve Adjusters
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> Valve Adjuster Lash Cap Kit | Valve Adjusters
> By MightyMerchant v5.1 Hardened lash caps with corresponding rocker arm shims to protect your valve stem tips. | |
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