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Date:         Fri, 23 Feb 2018 12:18:50 -0500
Reply-To:     Stephen Grisanti <bike2vcu@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Stephen Grisanti <bike2vcu@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Total loss, RIP
Comments: To: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <CACvdLxPo8QScfpjU+STyieZ3ZSTyywEr0hvWVt7MyLGymXV-9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

"Knob and tube" is what we call that wiring and had it in our old (both former and 1928) house. We replaced much during our various projects but not every run. The new (1976) place has some wiring that can charitably be called interesting.

Stephen

Mobile

> On Feb 23, 2018, at 12:02 PM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > > Friday, so ok. > > I believe that in most parts of the country, wiring that is 100 years old > would be of the "spool and thimble" type. The original wire would have > been cotton or paper wrapped (with a gummy material like that of old > fashioned electrician's tape). The "spools" and "thimbles" were ceramic > insulators with screws or nails in them to fasten them to framing. The > wires ran through or over the insulators, a set up resembling the way a > modern electric fence for livestock is constructed. Where I live, Spokane, > Washington, there are a lot of houses with this kind of wiring still, and > realtors will put it in the ad if the wiring has been updated. I think in

> some, the wire circuit started at the service box and was wired receptacle

> to receptacle so that if any device along the way failed, then the whole > circuit was off, like old fashioned Christmas tree lights. The circuit was > protected with screw in fuses, usually 20 amp. Not much could run on such

> circuits, as Dennis said, a few lights, a refrigerator, and a fan or two. > Operating a power tool would frequently blow the circuit. > > mcneely > > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 8:39 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >> If your wiring is that old do you even have circuit breakers or still >> fuses? >> When it comes to homes the utilities are often taken for granted and >> ignored until something goes wrong. Homes of a few decades ago had wiring

>> systems to accommodate lights and few appliances. Now a days we not only >> have many more appliances but also many devices that put strains on these

>> older systems. Power draws on some are small but that PC running 24/7 does >> cause some in wall wire heating or worse heating at those bad receptacle >> connections or blade contacts. Wiring devices, (receptacles, switches, >> etc.) are wear items and replacements are also available in a number of >> different grades. GFCI devices are used to prevent personal electric >> shocks, you becoming a path to ground. They do not provide any over currant >> or arc flash protection. The arc protection breakers help with loose >> connections or those extension cords under rugs but the best defense is to >> do some maintenance on receptacles that see heavy or continuous loads or >> get frequently used and avoid the risk to begin with. Consider having an >> electrician evaluate your home and upgrade as needed. For sheds and garages >> with open walls wiring especially at low heights should be in some type of >> conduit. >> >> Dennis >> >> >> From: Edward V Barger [mailto:edvbarger@mac.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:03 PM >> To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> >> Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >> Subject: Re: Total loss, RIP >> >> HI been following this with much interest >> >> We live in a hundred year old house with some of the original wiring in >> the attic and walls >> >> Would it be a good idea to get the breakers with the arc protection I have >> GFI in the kitchen bathrooms and in the garage / shop >> >> e >> Edward V Barger >> edvbarger@mac.com<mailto:edvbarger@mac.com> >> 310 922 6251 >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 21, 2018, at 6:24 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM< >> mailto:d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>> wrote: >> >> Most electrical fires are the result of the arcing or arc flash of an >> intermittent short, not of a duration long enough to trip a breaker or open >> a fuse. It is the intense heat of the arc igniting surrounding particles >> that can cause a fire to begin. >> >> As with many things that can hurt us there are protection devices >> available to help with this. While many of us are aware of overload >> protection few of us really understand how it works. Ground Fault circuit

>> interrupters are also common know to reduce electric shock hazards. Now >> available are devices to protect from Arc faults. >> >> http://www.afcisafety.org/afci/what-is-afci/<https:// >> nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% >> 2Fwww.afcisafety.org%2Fafci%2Fwhat-is-afci%2F&data=02%7C01%7C% >> 7C4259a65886ff4367780308d57a26d4ea%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa >> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636549229548345041&sdata=NVsluZ8UErEvpb6Bs7yf1Bul9hzHKd >> z%2BXSUskW8ECKc%3D&reserved=0> >> >> Anyplace where wiring can get damaged or extension cords are used or tools >> and other appliances are left powered on when not supervised, these devices >> can provide protection. In workshops and vehicle storage areas these are >> becoming must haves. >> >> Consider also that once a vehicle is stored inside the classification of >> that space changes. Flammable vapor detection is a must have and electrical >> equipment should not be near the floor and ideally rated for the >> application (explosion proof)? Our campers had small propane tanks for a >> number of reasons. Increase the capacity with larger or additional tanks >> and everything changes once something goes wrong. Same for increasing >> gasoline capacity. >> >> Dennis >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf >> Of Karl Ploessl >> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 8:50 PM >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM<mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >> Subject: Re: Total loss, RIP >> >> so sorry. As my neighborhood has a mice infection and I am battling mice >> with traps in my apartment, I am always leary of possible electrical fires. >> >> Best of luck, Karl. >> >> On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 11:28 AM, steve meassick <stevem@tdhvac.com >> <mailto:stevem@tdhvac.com>> wrote: >> >> >> No, the fire was not related to the van. It probably started with a >> rodent gnawing on electrical in the building. I did have a blazecut >> on the engine compartment lit, but apparently that was not enough... 😊 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On >> Behalf Of Stacy Schneider >> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 10:10 AM >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM<mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >> Subject: Re: Total loss, RIP >> >> Ned >> >> Those pictures are telling. Was the fire auto >> related or caused by sometging else? I don't think we all think about >> proper ventilation when parking our cars in a closed area. I don't >> have a tall enough garage to park my Westy or myh truck in, but I do >> have a proper paint cabinet outsidde to keep all the paint and chemicals >> in. >> Bummer about your van, hope your able to bounce >> back and get into another van. >> >> >> >> Stacy >> >> On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 7:48 AM, Ned Savoie <ned@harbourlight.com<mailto:n >> ed@harbourlight.com>> wrote: >> >> >> Wow, what a drag. That's a lot of memories. Hope you can get back >> into something soon. >> >> >> Ned >> >> -- >> >> Ned Savoie >> Creative Director >> >> Harbour Light Strategic Marketing >> Savvy Software, Inc. >> 621A Islington Street >> Portsmouth, NH 03801 >> >> [Telephone] 603.427.2821 >> [Facsimile] 603.427.0938 >> [Mobile] 603.828.2400 >> >> On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 10:34 AM, steve meassick <stevem@tdhvac.com >> <mailto:stevem@tdhvac.com>> >> wrote: >> >> >> This morning our equipment shed burned down with our 87 Westy >> camper in it. It was a total loss. I had just put it in the shed >> this Sunday >> after >> >> doing a bunch of work on it over the winter. We had it since new >> and >> had a >> >> lot of great memories and trips in it ranging from the great lakes >> to the Southwest to California to Alaska and Canada. A bunch of >> other stuff including tractors and a car we're also destroyed but >> this is the only thing I really had an attachment to. >> >> Here are a couple of photos: >> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F >> www.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fds48dnghbx9crvs%2F20180220_114030.jpg%3Fdl%3< >> http://www.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fds48dnghbx9crvs%2F20180220_ >> 114030.jpg%3Fdl%253> >> D0&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cca7bb260c2f94bec6c9508d579969f16%7C84df9e7fe9 >> f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636548610180748059&sdata=149fKBZa >> 0I1D90LdAJdDGMc88ZWM8IwBSunhoJmoTX8%3D&reserved=0 >> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= >> https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Flm5soz24iycefqg%2F2018- >> 02-20%252011.40.40.jpg&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cca7bb260c2f94bec6c9508d579969f16% >> 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636548610180748059&sdata= >> qNYykXyAWk3lAJNwokR2ffNQeTDyLZIn5%2BdErVicOpM%3D&reserved=0? >> dl=0 >> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= >> https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fs%2F30vjvuep0o0ri36%2F2018- >> 02-20%252011.47.53.jpg&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cca7bb260c2f94bec6c9508d579969f16% >> 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636548610180748059&sdata= >> zVmIv7KoogmJN5BeBhYpr4FkyfgA6bhhHSLOoILFcb8%3D&reserved=0? >> dl=0 >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> -- >> 1989 Swedish Tristar with Aluminum gates and Atiwe 16" Wheels. >> Oldest son is an Eagle scout. >> >>


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