Vanagon EuroVan
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Date:         Sat, 16 Jun 2018 09:52:59 -0400
Reply-To:     Larry Alofs <lalofs@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Larry Alofs <lalofs@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Electrical puzzle
In-Reply-To:  <CAMOH8LLirpdofk5N7R314GuZV_BfHT-_f6er44EMQ-9P7tvddw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I mostly agree with Dean here. I have installed "hard start relays" on at least one bus and two vanagons in the past. The problem was typically failure of the solenoid to activate after a couple of hours on the road. The relays solved the problem with no disadvantages that I could detect. Wires may not get "tired", but they do have resistance and the resistance is proportional to the length. The ignition switch also seems underengineered, considering the current needed to pull in the solenoid. I have not yet added a relay to my '91 GL because of possible interference with the cruise control on an AT van. Maybe someone like Mark or David can suggest a solution using perhaps another relay. :-)

I have in my possession a starter relay that I got from a Eurovan in a junkyard. To me this means that VW realized that controlling the solenoid with a relay is a good idea. I also find starter relays in the Subaru cars that supply donor engines for conversions.

Larry A.

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 11:07 PM David Beierl <dbeierl@attglobal.net> wrote:

> I mostly agree with Karl here. If the starter cranks as well (or poorly) > from the key as it does by jumpering the 50 terminal at the starter, then > there is nothing to be gained in terms of the starter working. If it > doesn't, then it's arguably as easy to fix the poor connection as to > install a starter relay. I say connection because wires don't get tired, > but crimps and connections do when left out in the weather the way VAG did. > > That said, the relay does reduce the stress on ignition switch contacts. > The solenoid is an inductive load, so it arcs more at the switch contacts > than a similar resistive load. The switches I've taken apart (no Kostal > ones yet) show pitting and arc burns on the the center contact at the 30 > terminal, which seems to do most of the actual make-and-break switching. I > tried to look at one just now to verify my recollection, but too many > pieces were missing for me to make sense of it. It's kind of a horror > inside -- the key-inserted switch complicates things considerably. > > Yrs, > d > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 1:48 PM, Karl <tdiguru@westyventures.com> wrote: > > > I've never in 35 years of working on these seen a need for an additional > > relay, so we'll have to agree to disagree here. If all connections are > > clean and strong there is no need for bandaids. The required current to > > activate the starter is quite small. Wires don't 'get tired'. > > > > > > > > > > On 6/15/2018 9:13 AM, OlRivrRat wrote: > > > >> On 15 Jun , 2018, at 1:11 AM, Karl Mullendore wrote: > >> > >> Easy fix - get rid of the unnecessary relay - as was done. The TDI > starter > >>> doesn't need this added complexity. > >>> > >> > >> I Strongly Disagree with this ~ Anything that can be done to > >> Lighten the Load > >> > >> on Our Van's Old & Tired Wires & Switches & Connectors is a Good Thing ~ > >> Especially > >> > >> in Instrument Cluster & FuseBlock area ~ > >> > >> The TDI Starters Efficiency is a Big Help but without a Start > Relay > >> the Current > >> > >> required to Hold the Starter Solenoid is Still having to pass through > the > >> Entire Length > >> > >> of the 50Circuit, All its Connect's & the Igni'Switch < That is what is > >> Unnecessary ~ > >> > >> ORR ~ DeanB > >> > >> >


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