Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 08:57:57 -0700
Reply-To: Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: No turn over
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR2001MB1042657549A06E736108026CA05D0@BN6PR2001MB1042.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
here's my share of the "crank but no start" problem... I hope it will help
someone...
Last year on a 1000+ miles trip from Oregon to Southern California, about
half way in the trip I stopped for gas, turn the engine off, get gas and
then... aughhh ... crank but no start.. couple guys helped me push the van
to a parking lot.. I checked everything - fuel pump, ignition switch,
sparks, vacuum, ECU etc etc ...but still crank but no start. In despair I
walked a couple blocks to a mechanic shop to get help but he was very busy
and couldn't help for at least 3 to 4 hours... I walked back to the van and
while waiting for him I check some more...
well... I have a notion about fuel pump relay and injector relay... so I
opened the 2 black boxes on the driver side of the fire wall, unplug and
replug all the relays and connectors... and then try to start again....
hurraay... it started right up on the first crank... I drove to the
mechanic shop and cancel my appointment and hit the road... the problem
never happened again for the rest of the trip and the return leg.
so... my guess is one of the connectors or relays had a bad contact and by
unplug and replug them I re-establish the continuity... problem solved...
:-)
On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 8:10 AM Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Did you get this resolved yet? If you still need help here are some points.
>
> When diagnosing no starts, especially no cranking the first thing to do is
> take control of fuel delivery. Unplug the injectors.
> The fuel pump run when the ignition is turned on is not a feature, it is a
> glitch. Not only does the pump run but the injectors also cycle.
> When you turn the key to crank, the pump runs during the cranking and the
> injectors cycle to put fuel in the engine. A lot of fuel for a cold start.
> Doesn't take to many cycles to puddle in the cylinders.
> Enough fuel and the engine can locked up. Cylinder wash, (remove the oil),
> broken rings, bent rods, and even head stud failure are all possibilities
> from this situation. IT gets really bad when someone next tries to push
> start the vehicle. Especially in a Syncro using the reverse or the granny
> low gear. We can always add the cracked low gear housing to that repair
> job!
>
> For a no start with good cranking similar situation there. Don’t assume no
> fuel. I've seen many a failed ECU keep the injectors wide open filling an
> engine with fuel. Happened to Fun Bus last fall while driving to work.
> After the 3rd time turning the key the key with no re-start I called for a
> tow truck. I assumed from the way it dies that original fuel pump failed.
> I was wrong.
>
> As for the grounds being loose. When a ground is open any other path will
> try to take that load. There should be 2 grounds on that engine, the front
> trans ground and the injector ground cylinder #4. The 2nd one will at least
> get you a slow crank but more importantly provide some protection for the
> ECU and various sensors. At least give a chance for troubleshooting.
>
> For recovery, remove the spark plugs, disconnect the injectors, disable
> the ignition coil, and crank the engine to blow any fuel remaining in the
> cylinders out. Check the oil level. If high, drain the oil-gas mixture out.
> Put plugs back in and connect the coil. Try to start (with injectors still
> disconnected). As the flooding clears it will try to start, and quickly
> stall. It may do this a few times. It will do this a lot if the oil has
> enough fuel contamination.
> When it no longer tires to spit or sputter re-connect the injectors and
> see if you can get it to run. Be aware as you can also have an exhaust full
> of fuel and it can ignite.
>
> "There is no problem so bad you can’t make it worse". Changing parts is
> not trouble shooting or good diagnostics. There are very few parts and
> circuits in the Vanagon that can’t be tested and proven with a meter. Learn
> to use one. Learn Ohm's and Kirchhoff's laws and there won't be a DC
> circuit you can’t conquer. Outside a battery electrically flows from
> negative to positive. What we refer to "ground" is really the source for
> our electrical consumers.
>
> When things do go wrong sometimes the do it yourself or a friend is not
> the lowest cost approach. Know when to get good qualified help.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of
> Cunegonde
> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 12:29 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: No turn over
>
> Transmission ground strap frame bolt not fully torqued, also red wire from
> battery only hand tight. Turns over just great, but now floods (with no
> accelerator pedal use at all) and still doesn’t start!
>
> There were throttle mechanism and vac line issues when I picked it up from
> Zoltan, will look at that in the morning. It did drive at tbe time. Aside
> from the stalling under high load, which could have been either fuel
> starvation, or possibly the tired battery I just replaced.
>
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