Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 17:36:22 -0700
Reply-To: "Michael A. Radtke" <wa7zpu@5BY9.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "Michael A. Radtke" <wa7zpu@5BY9.NET>
Subject: Re: Friday: Off Topic on Spam
In-Reply-To: <CAG9R2yA9y3fC9R+SrKuqGcbRb9=w5yehj8dbRAJA1_KTy0A9EA@mail.gmail.com>
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Mark,
Thank you for your comments.
Your post made me regret my making my post in the first place. I have
a lot of opinions, and sometimes I get so sure of myself that I forget
that others may disagree.
I want to see all of my email. You don't want to see all of your email.
Let's just agree to disagree.
Thanks for you opinion,
Mike
------------------------ Original Message ------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 16:47:59 -0700
From: Mark Belanger <mbelanger@gmail.com>
To: "Michael A. Radtke" <wa7zpu@5by9.net>
Cc: Vanagon List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
Subject: Re: Friday: Off Topic on Spam
I disagree. As a savvy Unix guy, I used to run my own email server,
until I realized that the corpus of SPAM data organizations like Google
and Microsoft can aggregate were orders of magnitude greater than I
could ever hope to achieve for training my local SPAM Assassin
deployment. I switched over to Gmail and have been quite happy ever
since. The service catches about 50-75 SPAM messages per day with 1-2
false positives and 5-10 false negatives per week. I peruse the SPAM
folder (sorted by subject), once a day.
I also reject your machinations linking spammers to spam blockers. By
your logic the phone companies are directly connected with robocallers
and mice are behind the mousetrap industry. First, there are numerous
free solutions, including the aforementioned SPAM Assassin, for
combating SPAM. Google is your friend. Second, you need to understand
the origins of email to understand why it is so easy to abuse. Email
protocols were designed by a bunch of academics in the late 60s and
early 70s when the Internet was limited to universities and government.
They were designed for ease of use, not security. The upside is that
billions of people have been able to trivially get email. The downside
is that billions of people, including bad actors, have been able to
trivially get email.
Of course, you can and will DIY your email, but for the vast majority of
users, it is far easier to go with a commercial solution. Provided you
stay away from lousy services like AOL, Yahoo or Hotmail, it's not that
bad and if it is, it's time to get a new email address.
FWIW,
MB
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 1:02 PM Michael A. Radtke <wa7zpu@5by9.net>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The spammers are winning and have even created an industry that sell
> products to block or delete spam. In my opinion our focus should have
> been on identifying and stopping the spammers, not blocking their
> messages. No spam filter can ever work. It's like "whack a mole" in
> that what ever we do, some spam gets through. But, the worst side
> effect is that there are plenty of false positives such as vanagon list
> messages ending up in a spam folder, or worse, just deleted.
>
> Over the years, I have had numerous problems with email providers
> "helping me" by keeping spam out of my inbox. From time to time this
> has caused me various levels of inconvenience, and it even cost me
> money on occasion. I don't know how businesses can tolerate spam
> filters and blockers if they do business by email. What if a customer
> places an order by email and the business never sees it? This is not a
> theory. Recently one of Amazon's servers IP was erroneously or
> maliciously added to some blacklists. Any mail from the affected
> server was deleted by the email providers who use those blacklists.
> Almost all email providers use blacklists.
>
> I am perfectly happy to press the delete key. I don't want someone
> deciding what email I can see. I have fought this battle for years and
> just like Hillary, I now run my own email server. I see all of my
> vanagon mail even if gerry gets blacklisted, or one of you in
> frustration, includes a forbidden word in your vanagon list posting.
>
> Thanks for listening,
> Mike
>
--
________________________________________________________________________
Mark Belanger - mbelanger@gmail.com
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