Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 19:29:21 -0700
Reply-To: Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Friday: Off Topic on Spam
In-Reply-To: <20190426173622.24d68869c370e19c3c93648c@5by9.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
isnt nice when people agree to disagree with such agreeability -
Alacrity is so cool
like ubiquity - it is everywhere man :)
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 5:36 PM Michael A. Radtke <wa7zpu@5by9.net> wrote:
> Mark,
>
> Thank you for your comments.
>
> Your post made me regret my making my post in the first place. I have
> a lot of opinions, and sometimes I get so sure of myself that I forget
> that others may disagree.
>
> I want to see all of my email. You don't want to see all of your email.
> Let's just agree to disagree.
>
> Thanks for you opinion,
> Mike
>
> ------------------------ Original Message ------------------------
> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 16:47:59 -0700
> From: Mark Belanger <mbelanger@gmail.com>
> To: "Michael A. Radtke" <wa7zpu@5by9.net>
> Cc: Vanagon List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
> Subject: Re: Friday: Off Topic on Spam
>
>
> I disagree. As a savvy Unix guy, I used to run my own email server,
> until I realized that the corpus of SPAM data organizations like Google
> and Microsoft can aggregate were orders of magnitude greater than I
> could ever hope to achieve for training my local SPAM Assassin
> deployment. I switched over to Gmail and have been quite happy ever
> since. The service catches about 50-75 SPAM messages per day with 1-2
> false positives and 5-10 false negatives per week. I peruse the SPAM
> folder (sorted by subject), once a day.
>
> I also reject your machinations linking spammers to spam blockers. By
> your logic the phone companies are directly connected with robocallers
> and mice are behind the mousetrap industry. First, there are numerous
> free solutions, including the aforementioned SPAM Assassin, for
> combating SPAM. Google is your friend. Second, you need to understand
> the origins of email to understand why it is so easy to abuse. Email
> protocols were designed by a bunch of academics in the late 60s and
> early 70s when the Internet was limited to universities and government.
> They were designed for ease of use, not security. The upside is that
> billions of people have been able to trivially get email. The downside
> is that billions of people, including bad actors, have been able to
> trivially get email.
>
> Of course, you can and will DIY your email, but for the vast majority of
> users, it is far easier to go with a commercial solution. Provided you
> stay away from lousy services like AOL, Yahoo or Hotmail, it's not that
> bad and if it is, it's time to get a new email address.
>
>
> FWIW,
> MB
>
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 1:02 PM Michael A. Radtke <wa7zpu@5by9.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > The spammers are winning and have even created an industry that sell
> > products to block or delete spam. In my opinion our focus should have
> > been on identifying and stopping the spammers, not blocking their
> > messages. No spam filter can ever work. It's like "whack a mole" in
> > that what ever we do, some spam gets through. But, the worst side
> > effect is that there are plenty of false positives such as vanagon list
> > messages ending up in a spam folder, or worse, just deleted.
> >
> > Over the years, I have had numerous problems with email providers
> > "helping me" by keeping spam out of my inbox. From time to time this
> > has caused me various levels of inconvenience, and it even cost me
> > money on occasion. I don't know how businesses can tolerate spam
> > filters and blockers if they do business by email. What if a customer
> > places an order by email and the business never sees it? This is not a
> > theory. Recently one of Amazon's servers IP was erroneously or
> > maliciously added to some blacklists. Any mail from the affected
> > server was deleted by the email providers who use those blacklists.
> > Almost all email providers use blacklists.
> >
> > I am perfectly happy to press the delete key. I don't want someone
> > deciding what email I can see. I have fought this battle for years and
> > just like Hillary, I now run my own email server. I see all of my
> > vanagon mail even if gerry gets blacklisted, or one of you in
> > frustration, includes a forbidden word in your vanagon list posting.
> >
> > Thanks for listening,
> > Mike
> >
>
>
> --
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Mark Belanger - mbelanger@gmail.com
>
--
roger whittaker 604.414.6266
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