Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 14:41:50 -0500
Reply-To: "Jim. Felder" <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "Jim. Felder" <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Vanagon Reliability & Philosophy
In-Reply-To: <CACC7GNLFHkHOm0vsk66uHDdpiuw0t-QL_fXMkNPy+dX2Kc+xxg@mail.gmail.com>
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One thing Pirsig never factored in was the spiraling disaster that is rebuilt assemblies. Tomorrow I will pay $140 for a rebuilt alternator for my diesel Vanagon. The problem is that I paid one of the list vendors that much for the item originally—exactly 11,678 miles ago, a Bosch Premium Rebuild. When you are on the wrong end of the life cycle curve on starters and alternators, preventive maintenance becomes catch-and-release. As soon as you install the thing, start looking for the next one.
Jim
>
> On Jul 1, 2019 at 10:37 AM, <Jack Elliott (mailto:pdaxe2gto@gmail.com)> wrote:
>
>
>
> I just see my van as entropy in action. Also an engineer (though
> electrical, not mechanical) I view it as a system of parts that are
> imperfect, a kludge of things that will work for a while. It's gonna break.
> In a big way, or a small way, the oncoming heat death of the universe makes
> itself known. I stay alert for signs of weirdness and try to understand
> them, see if they are significant or not, and address them accordingly to
> the best of these guesses and the best of my ability. I rely on the
> knowledge of others whenever I can. Adding a passenger, a SO for example,
> who does not share my willingness to accept the inevitable, will greatly
> reduce the sometimes pleasurable aspect of dealing with a breakdown and
> solving the problem creatively. IOW, if getting someplace on time is
> critical, if there are others with me that will not get a kick out of being
> stuck somewhere because an oil filter blew off (it happened to me due to my
> ignorance of filter threads, another story), then it's gonna have a Bad
> Time. Masochism in action? To paraphrase my son, "any d*****bag with a
> credit card can have a reliable car." Sometimes just getting somewhere
> without trouble is in itself accomplishment enough.
>
> That, plus people think these vehicles are totally cool and wish they could
> get one.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 8:02 AM kenneth wilford (Van-Again) <
> kenwilfy@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > I look at the van as a never ending restoration project. You start with
> > the things that affect your safety and reliability first like brakes,
> > steering, suspension, the engine, the transmission. Once these have been
> > inspected and repaired, then you can move on to creature comforts like AC
> > and cosmetics. The problem is most folks focus on the creature comforts
> > and cosmetics first and expect the mechanicals will be fine as long as the
> > van looks good (new paint or wheels), and has a great sounding radio (I
> > guess it is fun to rock out while you wait for the tow truck).
> >
> > Also one of my customers chants this mantra, "Don't let perfection get in
> > the way of good enough." You have to know when to say when on any
> > project. If you are seeking perfection you will never find it. But if you
> > are seeking functionality and safety you should find it in enough measure
> > to feel confident in your Vanagon. I use Progressive insurance which
> > includes a nice towing and roadside assistance plan, which I think every
> > car owner should have no matter what they are driving.
> >
> > That is about it. I know the aircraft mechanic, engineer, etc. tends to
> > over analyze and over think the repairs or restoration of the van. Usually
> > this leads to lots of great plans, ripping everything apart to do a
> > "proper" restoration, and then abandoning the project when life gets in the
> > way. Avoid this. Instead, do the basics, get it running and safe, and
> > then enjoy it for the summer or two before doing the "full monty" on it.
> > That way you can decide if you really want to do that, or if you want to
> > sell it to someone else, or if you are "gasp" satisfied with the van even
> > with the quirks and imperfections. Some of them came from the factory...
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 10:28 AM Alex MeVay <alex@mevay.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I've also been interested in exploring this, and I think Richard S
> > > gave some great points.
> > >
> > > I'm 5 years into my Vanagon, and it's given me the highest highs and
> > > lowest lows of any vehicle I've owned. Some of the recent trip
> > > reports have done a good job capturing the highs. As for the lows:
> > > after endless weekends and evenings of work, sitting there staring at
> > > a half-busted van and a to-do list that never gets any shorter... Rod
> > > sticking through the oil pan (I-4) one day before your long-planned
> > > trip down the CA coast with your SO... You know the routine.
> > >
> > > At first, I approached the van like I would my other projects: as an
> > > engineer (my day job). I would think through each repair and upgrade
> > > to make sure it would last at least 1,000 years (or say at least 30),
> > > and add to the todo list anything that might ever fail ever. This was
> > > a recipe for negative thoughts and feelings about the van. I
> > > struggled, even to the point of having impure thoughts about
> > > Sprinters. At some point, I stumbled across this article, which I
> > > found extremely helpful:
> > >
> > > https://worldpowersystems.com/PROJECTS/wabiTekSabi/index.html
> > >
> > > Among other points, it encourages thinking about objects as processes
> > > or situations, not perfected Platonic ideals. Instead of thinking
> > > about the van as an object I have thus far failed to perfect, it's
> > > better to think about the process and context: the exchange of driving
> > > the van, doing maintenance. A van by itself is meaningless...add a
> > > driver, a 2-lane road, and that exchange of energy, and now you're
> > > going somewhere. Instead of asking myself, "Is it perfect?", I
> > > learned to ask, "Will it get me to the desert and back in relative
> > > safety and comfort?" This is a much lower standard, but it gets more
> > > to the heart of why I think we all do this. It acknowledges that,
> > > even before you tighten that last bolt, the process of decay and
> > > failure has started. All is flux, but that's OK.
> > >
> > >
> > > Turning to more concrete matters, I think what Richard said about your
> > > eyes and seat being the OBD hits the nail on the head. Being
> > > mercilessly vigilant about understanding every creak, drip, vibration,
> > > and smell is the best way to avoid big problems. You don't need to
> > > fix it all, but I feel you need to understand it. For every issue or
> > > warning sign, I ask:
> > >
> > > What is the root cause?
> > >
> > > How bad is this if it fails? (annoyance, or end of trip?)
> > >
> > > Is it likely to fail all at once, or slowly get worse? (Will I have
> > > some warning that a repair is required?)
> > >
> > > Is there a possibility of cascading failure? (i.e., bad engine
> > > mount->trashed exhaust)
> > >
> > > Can it be repaired in the field?
> > >
> > > Running through these questions for each issue helps me prioritize
> > > repairs and understand the risks I am taking (or lack thereof) each
> > > time I head out on a trip.
> > >
> > > What other philosophies or mind-tricks have helped you enjoy Vanagon
> > > ownership, or simply get out and back safely?
> > >
> > > Alex
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 10:32 PM Richard Smith <smirby@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On reliability:
> > > >
> > > > I commend everyone who works on reliability, and I think it is
> > something
> > > we should all be mindful of. Without the "RE" you have a liability. __
> > > >
> > > > On the "my wife/husband hates my van because it is unreliable" theme, I
> > > like to approach that problem from three directions:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Manage expectations. I start every (longer) trip with a reminder
> > that
> > > we could get towed, and that it shouldn't be seen as a disaster. This may
> > > appease the karma gods - I haven't been towed yet - but it also sets the
> > > tone for whatever calamity arises.
> > > >
> > > > 2. Live in the moment. If our cars didn't falter from time to time, and
> > > we drifted along in uncaring bliss, would get get to meet those
> > exceptional
> > > people who rise to the occasion? Every breakdown that I have had has been
> > > just as interesting as the rest of the trip.
> > > >
> > > > 3. Invest in your ride. Do the things that need doing, when they need
> > > it. Replace the fuel lines. Make sure the brakes, tires, suspension are
> > all
> > > in good condition before you set out. This won't make it never break
> > down,
> > > but it will remove some of the failure points. We don't have a lot of
> > > sensors telling us what is wrong, so your ears (and seat) are your "OBD"
> > > system.
> > > >
> > > > We often mistake the reliability that we see in others' vehicles for a
> > > completely trouble-free experience. They, too, have had their share of
> > > breakdowns, its just that we don't see them. In my time owning Vanagons
> > > (and a '73 bus before that), it has been no worse than lots of other
> > cars,
> > > and better than many.
> > > >
> > > > For most of us, our vanagon is >30 years old. This carries with it a
> > > weighty responsibility in maintenance but also the need to embrace the
> > > uncertainty that it brings with it.
> > > >
> > > > Despite all this, it remains a joy to own, and if that comes with a
> > > frisson of excitement because of the chance of breakdown, I'll take it.
> > Not
> > > for everyone, to be sure, but that's how I am dealing with it.
> > > >
> > > > ...r
> > > >
> > > > On 2019-06-30, 5:37 PM, "Vanagon Mailing List on behalf of Richard
> > > Koerner" <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com on behalf of rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Which brings me to a last point. A few months ago someone
> > mentioned
> > > reliability as their main goal with their Westy. I am very interested in
> > > ideas about reliability that anyone might share.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanks,
> > Ken Wilford
> > John 3:16
> > www.vanagain.com
> >
>
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