Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 08:59:22 -0700
Reply-To: Bruce Todd <beeceetee@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Bruce Todd <beeceetee@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Vanagon Reliability & Philosophy
In-Reply-To: <CACC7GNLFHkHOm0vsk66uHDdpiuw0t-QL_fXMkNPy+dX2Kc+xxg@mail.gmail.com>
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I wonder if Robert Pirsig ever drove or owned a Vanagon? Some of Alex's
comments made me think of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and
that the vehicle itself is really just a lump on steel until it is operated
by a human, gathers motion and then becomes a van. Pirsig broke down his
explanation of classic and romantic understanding using a train and
motorcycle as the example - the vanagon works perfectly as well for those
with an engineering mind vs the arts mind..
As for me - we are on the eve of a trip to Hornby Island and in the process
of packing the van and thinking of all the little things that should be
included in case any mechanical and electrical gremlins wake up during the
drive. I always get uneasy when "Whitesail" seems to be running so well as
if it could travel 100,000 kms without issue.
These truly are adventure wagons for so many reasons.
Bruce
86 Syncro Westy
Whitesail
On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 8:37 AM Jack Elliott <pdaxe2gto@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just see my van as entropy in action. Also an engineer (though
> electrical, not mechanical) I view it as a system of parts that are
> imperfect, a kludge of things that will work for a while. It's gonna break.
> In a big way, or a small way, the oncoming heat death of the universe makes
> itself known. I stay alert for signs of weirdness and try to understand
> them, see if they are significant or not, and address them accordingly to
> the best of these guesses and the best of my ability. I rely on the
> knowledge of others whenever I can. Adding a passenger, a SO for example,
> who does not share my willingness to accept the inevitable, will greatly
> reduce the sometimes pleasurable aspect of dealing with a breakdown and
> solving the problem creatively. IOW, if getting someplace on time is
> critical, if there are others with me that will not get a kick out of being
> stuck somewhere because an oil filter blew off (it happened to me due to my
> ignorance of filter threads, another story), then it's gonna have a Bad
> Time. Masochism in action? To paraphrase my son, "any d*****bag with a
> credit card can have a reliable car." Sometimes just getting somewhere
> without trouble is in itself accomplishment enough.
>
> That, plus people think these vehicles are totally cool and wish they could
> get one.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 8:02 AM kenneth wilford (Van-Again) <
> kenwilfy@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > I look at the van as a never ending restoration project. You start with
> > the things that affect your safety and reliability first like brakes,
> > steering, suspension, the engine, the transmission. Once these have been
> > inspected and repaired, then you can move on to creature comforts like AC
> > and cosmetics. The problem is most folks focus on the creature comforts
> > and cosmetics first and expect the mechanicals will be fine as long as
> the
> > van looks good (new paint or wheels), and has a great sounding radio (I
> > guess it is fun to rock out while you wait for the tow truck).
> >
> > Also one of my customers chants this mantra, "Don't let perfection get in
> > the way of good enough." You have to know when to say when on any
> > project. If you are seeking perfection you will never find it. But if
> you
> > are seeking functionality and safety you should find it in enough measure
> > to feel confident in your Vanagon. I use Progressive insurance which
> > includes a nice towing and roadside assistance plan, which I think every
> > car owner should have no matter what they are driving.
> >
> > That is about it. I know the aircraft mechanic, engineer, etc. tends to
> > over analyze and over think the repairs or restoration of the van.
> Usually
> > this leads to lots of great plans, ripping everything apart to do a
> > "proper" restoration, and then abandoning the project when life gets in
> the
> > way. Avoid this. Instead, do the basics, get it running and safe, and
> > then enjoy it for the summer or two before doing the "full monty" on it.
> > That way you can decide if you really want to do that, or if you want to
> > sell it to someone else, or if you are "gasp" satisfied with the van even
> > with the quirks and imperfections. Some of them came from the factory...
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 10:28 AM Alex MeVay <alex@mevay.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I've also been interested in exploring this, and I think Richard S
> > > gave some great points.
> > >
> > > I'm 5 years into my Vanagon, and it's given me the highest highs and
> > > lowest lows of any vehicle I've owned. Some of the recent trip
> > > reports have done a good job capturing the highs. As for the lows:
> > > after endless weekends and evenings of work, sitting there staring at
> > > a half-busted van and a to-do list that never gets any shorter... Rod
> > > sticking through the oil pan (I-4) one day before your long-planned
> > > trip down the CA coast with your SO... You know the routine.
> > >
> > > At first, I approached the van like I would my other projects: as an
> > > engineer (my day job). I would think through each repair and upgrade
> > > to make sure it would last at least 1,000 years (or say at least 30),
> > > and add to the todo list anything that might ever fail ever. This was
> > > a recipe for negative thoughts and feelings about the van. I
> > > struggled, even to the point of having impure thoughts about
> > > Sprinters. At some point, I stumbled across this article, which I
> > > found extremely helpful:
> > >
> > > https://worldpowersystems.com/PROJECTS/wabiTekSabi/index.html
> > >
> > > Among other points, it encourages thinking about objects as processes
> > > or situations, not perfected Platonic ideals. Instead of thinking
> > > about the van as an object I have thus far failed to perfect, it's
> > > better to think about the process and context: the exchange of driving
> > > the van, doing maintenance. A van by itself is meaningless...add a
> > > driver, a 2-lane road, and that exchange of energy, and now you're
> > > going somewhere. Instead of asking myself, "Is it perfect?", I
> > > learned to ask, "Will it get me to the desert and back in relative
> > > safety and comfort?" This is a much lower standard, but it gets more
> > > to the heart of why I think we all do this. It acknowledges that,
> > > even before you tighten that last bolt, the process of decay and
> > > failure has started. All is flux, but that's OK.
> > >
> > >
> > > Turning to more concrete matters, I think what Richard said about your
> > > eyes and seat being the OBD hits the nail on the head. Being
> > > mercilessly vigilant about understanding every creak, drip, vibration,
> > > and smell is the best way to avoid big problems. You don't need to
> > > fix it all, but I feel you need to understand it. For every issue or
> > > warning sign, I ask:
> > >
> > > What is the root cause?
> > >
> > > How bad is this if it fails? (annoyance, or end of trip?)
> > >
> > > Is it likely to fail all at once, or slowly get worse? (Will I have
> > > some warning that a repair is required?)
> > >
> > > Is there a possibility of cascading failure? (i.e., bad engine
> > > mount->trashed exhaust)
> > >
> > > Can it be repaired in the field?
> > >
> > > Running through these questions for each issue helps me prioritize
> > > repairs and understand the risks I am taking (or lack thereof) each
> > > time I head out on a trip.
> > >
> > > What other philosophies or mind-tricks have helped you enjoy Vanagon
> > > ownership, or simply get out and back safely?
> > >
> > > Alex
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 10:32 PM Richard Smith <smirby@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On reliability:
> > > >
> > > > I commend everyone who works on reliability, and I think it is
> > something
> > > we should all be mindful of. Without the "RE" you have a liability. __
> > > >
> > > > On the "my wife/husband hates my van because it is unreliable"
> theme, I
> > > like to approach that problem from three directions:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Manage expectations. I start every (longer) trip with a reminder
> > that
> > > we could get towed, and that it shouldn't be seen as a disaster. This
> may
> > > appease the karma gods - I haven't been towed yet - but it also sets
> the
> > > tone for whatever calamity arises.
> > > >
> > > > 2. Live in the moment. If our cars didn't falter from time to time,
> and
> > > we drifted along in uncaring bliss, would get get to meet those
> > exceptional
> > > people who rise to the occasion? Every breakdown that I have had has
> been
> > > just as interesting as the rest of the trip.
> > > >
> > > > 3. Invest in your ride. Do the things that need doing, when they need
> > > it. Replace the fuel lines. Make sure the brakes, tires, suspension are
> > all
> > > in good condition before you set out. This won't make it never break
> > down,
> > > but it will remove some of the failure points. We don't have a lot of
> > > sensors telling us what is wrong, so your ears (and seat) are your
> "OBD"
> > > system.
> > > >
> > > > We often mistake the reliability that we see in others' vehicles for
> a
> > > completely trouble-free experience. They, too, have had their share of
> > > breakdowns, its just that we don't see them. In my time owning Vanagons
> > > (and a '73 bus before that), it has been no worse than lots of other
> > cars,
> > > and better than many.
> > > >
> > > > For most of us, our vanagon is >30 years old. This carries with it a
> > > weighty responsibility in maintenance but also the need to embrace the
> > > uncertainty that it brings with it.
> > > >
> > > > Despite all this, it remains a joy to own, and if that comes with a
> > > frisson of excitement because of the chance of breakdown, I'll take it.
> > Not
> > > for everyone, to be sure, but that's how I am dealing with it.
> > > >
> > > > ...r
> > > >
> > > > On 2019-06-30, 5:37 PM, "Vanagon Mailing List on behalf of Richard
> > > Koerner" <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com on behalf of rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Which brings me to a last point. A few months ago someone
> > mentioned
> > > reliability as their main goal with their Westy. I am very interested
> in
> > > ideas about reliability that anyone might share.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanks,
> > Ken Wilford
> > John 3:16
> > www.vanagain.com
> >
>
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