Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 20:05:20 -0300
Reply-To: Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@NBNET.NB.CA>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@NBNET.NB.CA>
Subject: Re: Vanagon Reliability & Philosophy
In-Reply-To: <CAGXJJtwz=JhBW2cODUQgPswZfCtaap1cnVOAv+BnTUsF_6aEpQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Between, Muir and student poverty, the ’66 Westy (Ras Bulli Split) and I traveled many thousands of miles on remarkably little. A little later on, e-mail correspondence with Bob Hoover helped me dig deeper and improve the reliability of the then nearly 30yr old bus. Now, at more than 50, Ras Bulli Split sees fewer than 3000 miles a year - but each one is accompanied with the biggest smile you could imaging.
> On 02-Jul-2019, at 11:57, Steven Johnson <sjohnso2000@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> I think a read of the Idiot Guide by John Muir should be added to this.
> I'm sure that's
> how many of us on the list started getting into VW's in the first place.
> Although the
> younger members of this list may not have even heard of it. Those were
> the days
> when knowledge of working on a car much less a VW were far a few between.
> No quick
> answers and access to parts. But the philosophy of that book made for me
> not being
> afraid to get my hands dirty and dig into the mechanicals and repair work.
> Now you
> can go to Google or YouTube and practically have the answer handed to you.
> So these
> days there is no excuse for not getting things repaired by yourself or at
> least, understanding
> what is wrong. Of course, the mystical electronics of modern vehicles of
> which our vanagon's
> are on the low end of still can have many problems that need to be properly
> diagnosed. Experience
> is a huge advantage. So the average Joe/Jane may be able to get so far
> with diagnosis but
> lack of experience can baffle many.
>
> Enough rambling...
>
> Steven
> 91 Westy
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 6:14 PM Bruce Todd <beeceetee@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well Pirsig did spend a lot of time trying to define the essence of quality
>> - and perhaps that is what you are saying Jim.
>>
>> BT
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 12:54 PM Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> What failed on the alternator Jim?
>>>
>>> Alistair
>>>
>>>> On Jul 1, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Jim. Felder <jim.felder@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One thing Pirsig never factored in was the spiraling disaster that is
>>> rebuilt assemblies. Tomorrow I will pay $140 for a rebuilt alternator for
>>> my diesel Vanagon. The problem is that I paid one of the list vendors
>> that
>>> much for the item originally—exactly 11,678 miles ago, a Bosch Premium
>>> Rebuild. When you are on the wrong end of the life cycle curve on
>>> starters and alternators, preventive maintenance becomes
>> catch-and-release.
>>> As soon as you install the thing, start looking for the next one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 1, 2019 at 10:37 AM, <Jack Elliott (mailto:
>> pdaxe2gto@gmail.com)>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I just see my van as entropy in action. Also an engineer (though
>>>>> electrical, not mechanical) I view it as a system of parts that are
>>>>> imperfect, a kludge of things that will work for a while. It's gonna
>>> break.
>>>>> In a big way, or a small way, the oncoming heat death of the universe
>>> makes
>>>>> itself known. I stay alert for signs of weirdness and try to
>>> understand
>>>>> them, see if they are significant or not, and address them accordingly
>>> to
>>>>> the best of these guesses and the best of my ability. I rely on the
>>>>> knowledge of others whenever I can. Adding a passenger, a SO for
>>> example,
>>>>> who does not share my willingness to accept the inevitable, will
>>> greatly
>>>>> reduce the sometimes pleasurable aspect of dealing with a breakdown
>>> and
>>>>> solving the problem creatively. IOW, if getting someplace on time is
>>>>> critical, if there are others with me that will not get a kick out of
>>> being
>>>>> stuck somewhere because an oil filter blew off (it happened to me due
>>> to my
>>>>> ignorance of filter threads, another story), then it's gonna have a
>>> Bad
>>>>> Time. Masochism in action? To paraphrase my son, "any d*****bag with a
>>>>> credit card can have a reliable car." Sometimes just getting somewhere
>>>>> without trouble is in itself accomplishment enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> That, plus people think these vehicles are totally cool and wish they
>>> could
>>>>> get one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 8:02 AM kenneth wilford (Van-Again) <
>>>>> kenwilfy@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I look at the van as a never ending restoration project. You start
>>> with
>>>>>> the things that affect your safety and reliability first like brakes,
>>>>>> steering, suspension, the engine, the transmission. Once these have
>>> been
>>>>>> inspected and repaired, then you can move on to creature comforts
>> like
>>> AC
>>>>>> and cosmetics. The problem is most folks focus on the creature
>>> comforts
>>>>>> and cosmetics first and expect the mechanicals will be fine as long
>> as
>>> the
>>>>>> van looks good (new paint or wheels), and has a great sounding radio
>>> (I
>>>>>> guess it is fun to rock out while you wait for the tow truck).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also one of my customers chants this mantra, "Don't let perfection
>> get
>>> in
>>>>>> the way of good enough." You have to know when to say when on any
>>>>>> project. If you are seeking perfection you will never find it. But if
>>> you
>>>>>> are seeking functionality and safety you should find it in enough
>>> measure
>>>>>> to feel confident in your Vanagon. I use Progressive insurance which
>>>>>> includes a nice towing and roadside assistance plan, which I think
>>> every
>>>>>> car owner should have no matter what they are driving.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is about it. I know the aircraft mechanic, engineer, etc. tends
>>> to
>>>>>> over analyze and over think the repairs or restoration of the van.
>>> Usually
>>>>>> this leads to lots of great plans, ripping everything apart to do a
>>>>>> "proper" restoration, and then abandoning the project when life gets
>>> in the
>>>>>> way. Avoid this. Instead, do the basics, get it running and safe, and
>>>>>> then enjoy it for the summer or two before doing the "full monty" on
>>> it.
>>>>>> That way you can decide if you really want to do that, or if you want
>>> to
>>>>>> sell it to someone else, or if you are "gasp" satisfied with the van
>>> even
>>>>>> with the quirks and imperfections. Some of them came from the
>>> factory...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 10:28 AM Alex MeVay <alex@mevay.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've also been interested in exploring this, and I think Richard S
>>>>>>> gave some great points.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm 5 years into my Vanagon, and it's given me the highest highs and
>>>>>>> lowest lows of any vehicle I've owned. Some of the recent trip
>>>>>>> reports have done a good job capturing the highs. As for the lows:
>>>>>>> after endless weekends and evenings of work, sitting there staring
>>> at
>>>>>>> a half-busted van and a to-do list that never gets any shorter...
>>> Rod
>>>>>>> sticking through the oil pan (I-4) one day before your long-planned
>>>>>>> trip down the CA coast with your SO... You know the routine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At first, I approached the van like I would my other projects: as an
>>>>>>> engineer (my day job). I would think through each repair and upgrade
>>>>>>> to make sure it would last at least 1,000 years (or say at least
>>> 30),
>>>>>>> and add to the todo list anything that might ever fail ever. This
>>> was
>>>>>>> a recipe for negative thoughts and feelings about the van. I
>>>>>>> struggled, even to the point of having impure thoughts about
>>>>>>> Sprinters. At some point, I stumbled across this article, which I
>>>>>>> found extremely helpful:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://worldpowersystems.com/PROJECTS/wabiTekSabi/index.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Among other points, it encourages thinking about objects as
>>> processes
>>>>>>> or situations, not perfected Platonic ideals. Instead of thinking
>>>>>>> about the van as an object I have thus far failed to perfect, it's
>>>>>>> better to think about the process and context: the exchange of
>>> driving
>>>>>>> the van, doing maintenance. A van by itself is meaningless...add a
>>>>>>> driver, a 2-lane road, and that exchange of energy, and now you're
>>>>>>> going somewhere. Instead of asking myself, "Is it perfect?", I
>>>>>>> learned to ask, "Will it get me to the desert and back in relative
>>>>>>> safety and comfort?" This is a much lower standard, but it gets more
>>>>>>> to the heart of why I think we all do this. It acknowledges that,
>>>>>>> even before you tighten that last bolt, the process of decay and
>>>>>>> failure has started. All is flux, but that's OK.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Turning to more concrete matters, I think what Richard said about
>>> your
>>>>>>> eyes and seat being the OBD hits the nail on the head. Being
>>>>>>> mercilessly vigilant about understanding every creak, drip,
>>> vibration,
>>>>>>> and smell is the best way to avoid big problems. You don't need to
>>>>>>> fix it all, but I feel you need to understand it. For every issue or
>>>>>>> warning sign, I ask:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the root cause?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How bad is this if it fails? (annoyance, or end of trip?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it likely to fail all at once, or slowly get worse? (Will I have
>>>>>>> some warning that a repair is required?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there a possibility of cascading failure? (i.e., bad engine
>>>>>>> mount->trashed exhaust)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can it be repaired in the field?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Running through these questions for each issue helps me prioritize
>>>>>>> repairs and understand the risks I am taking (or lack thereof) each
>>>>>>> time I head out on a trip.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What other philosophies or mind-tricks have helped you enjoy Vanagon
>>>>>>> ownership, or simply get out and back safely?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 10:32 PM Richard Smith <smirby@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On reliability:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I commend everyone who works on reliability, and I think it is
>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> we should all be mindful of. Without the "RE" you have a liability.
>>> __
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the "my wife/husband hates my van because it is unreliable"
>>> theme, I
>>>>>>> like to approach that problem from three directions:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Manage expectations. I start every (longer) trip with a reminder
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> we could get towed, and that it shouldn't be seen as a disaster.
>> This
>>> may
>>>>>>> appease the karma gods - I haven't been towed yet - but it also sets
>>> the
>>>>>>> tone for whatever calamity arises.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. Live in the moment. If our cars didn't falter from time to time,
>>> and
>>>>>>> we drifted along in uncaring bliss, would get get to meet those
>>>>>> exceptional
>>>>>>> people who rise to the occasion? Every breakdown that I have had has
>>> been
>>>>>>> just as interesting as the rest of the trip.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. Invest in your ride. Do the things that need doing, when they
>>> need
>>>>>>> it. Replace the fuel lines. Make sure the brakes, tires, suspension
>>> are
>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> in good condition before you set out. This won't make it never break
>>>>>> down,
>>>>>>> but it will remove some of the failure points. We don't have a lot
>>> of
>>>>>>> sensors telling us what is wrong, so your ears (and seat) are your
>>> "OBD"
>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We often mistake the reliability that we see in others' vehicles
>> for
>>> a
>>>>>>> completely trouble-free experience. They, too, have had their share
>>> of
>>>>>>> breakdowns, its just that we don't see them. In my time owning
>>> Vanagons
>>>>>>> (and a '73 bus before that), it has been no worse than lots of other
>>>>>> cars,
>>>>>>> and better than many.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For most of us, our vanagon is >30 years old. This carries with it
>>> a
>>>>>>> weighty responsibility in maintenance but also the need to embrace
>>> the
>>>>>>> uncertainty that it brings with it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Despite all this, it remains a joy to own, and if that comes with a
>>>>>>> frisson of excitement because of the chance of breakdown, I'll take
>>> it.
>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>> for everyone, to be sure, but that's how I am dealing with it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...r
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2019-06-30, 5:37 PM, "Vanagon Mailing List on behalf of Richard
>>>>>>> Koerner" <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com on behalf of
>>> rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which brings me to a last point. A few months ago someone
>>>>>> mentioned
>>>>>>> reliability as their main goal with their Westy. I am very
>> interested
>>> in
>>>>>>> ideas about reliability that anyone might share.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Ken Wilford
>>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>>> www.vanagain.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
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