Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 12:53:42 -0700
Reply-To: Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA>
Subject: Re: Vanagon Reliability & Philosophy
In-Reply-To: <c6ce1eba-907b-461a-b1d5-885b22cfc3cf@Jim-Felders-iPhone-2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
What failed on the alternator Jim?
Alistair
> On Jul 1, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Jim. Felder <jim.felder@gmail.com> wrote:
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> One thing Pirsig never factored in was the spiraling disaster that is rebuilt assemblies. Tomorrow I will pay $140 for a rebuilt alternator for my diesel Vanagon. The problem is that I paid one of the list vendors that much for the item originally—exactly 11,678 miles ago, a Bosch Premium Rebuild. When you are on the wrong end of the life cycle curve on starters and alternators, preventive maintenance becomes catch-and-release. As soon as you install the thing, start looking for the next one.
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> Jim
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>> On Jul 1, 2019 at 10:37 AM, <Jack Elliott (mailto:pdaxe2gto@gmail.com)> wrote:
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>> I just see my van as entropy in action. Also an engineer (though
>> electrical, not mechanical) I view it as a system of parts that are
>> imperfect, a kludge of things that will work for a while. It's gonna break.
>> In a big way, or a small way, the oncoming heat death of the universe makes
>> itself known. I stay alert for signs of weirdness and try to understand
>> them, see if they are significant or not, and address them accordingly to
>> the best of these guesses and the best of my ability. I rely on the
>> knowledge of others whenever I can. Adding a passenger, a SO for example,
>> who does not share my willingness to accept the inevitable, will greatly
>> reduce the sometimes pleasurable aspect of dealing with a breakdown and
>> solving the problem creatively. IOW, if getting someplace on time is
>> critical, if there are others with me that will not get a kick out of being
>> stuck somewhere because an oil filter blew off (it happened to me due to my
>> ignorance of filter threads, another story), then it's gonna have a Bad
>> Time. Masochism in action? To paraphrase my son, "any d*****bag with a
>> credit card can have a reliable car." Sometimes just getting somewhere
>> without trouble is in itself accomplishment enough.
>>
>> That, plus people think these vehicles are totally cool and wish they could
>> get one.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 8:02 AM kenneth wilford (Van-Again) <
>> kenwilfy@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I look at the van as a never ending restoration project. You start with
>>> the things that affect your safety and reliability first like brakes,
>>> steering, suspension, the engine, the transmission. Once these have been
>>> inspected and repaired, then you can move on to creature comforts like AC
>>> and cosmetics. The problem is most folks focus on the creature comforts
>>> and cosmetics first and expect the mechanicals will be fine as long as the
>>> van looks good (new paint or wheels), and has a great sounding radio (I
>>> guess it is fun to rock out while you wait for the tow truck).
>>>
>>> Also one of my customers chants this mantra, "Don't let perfection get in
>>> the way of good enough." You have to know when to say when on any
>>> project. If you are seeking perfection you will never find it. But if you
>>> are seeking functionality and safety you should find it in enough measure
>>> to feel confident in your Vanagon. I use Progressive insurance which
>>> includes a nice towing and roadside assistance plan, which I think every
>>> car owner should have no matter what they are driving.
>>>
>>> That is about it. I know the aircraft mechanic, engineer, etc. tends to
>>> over analyze and over think the repairs or restoration of the van. Usually
>>> this leads to lots of great plans, ripping everything apart to do a
>>> "proper" restoration, and then abandoning the project when life gets in the
>>> way. Avoid this. Instead, do the basics, get it running and safe, and
>>> then enjoy it for the summer or two before doing the "full monty" on it.
>>> That way you can decide if you really want to do that, or if you want to
>>> sell it to someone else, or if you are "gasp" satisfied with the van even
>>> with the quirks and imperfections. Some of them came from the factory...
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 10:28 AM Alex MeVay <alex@mevay.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've also been interested in exploring this, and I think Richard S
>>>> gave some great points.
>>>>
>>>> I'm 5 years into my Vanagon, and it's given me the highest highs and
>>>> lowest lows of any vehicle I've owned. Some of the recent trip
>>>> reports have done a good job capturing the highs. As for the lows:
>>>> after endless weekends and evenings of work, sitting there staring at
>>>> a half-busted van and a to-do list that never gets any shorter... Rod
>>>> sticking through the oil pan (I-4) one day before your long-planned
>>>> trip down the CA coast with your SO... You know the routine.
>>>>
>>>> At first, I approached the van like I would my other projects: as an
>>>> engineer (my day job). I would think through each repair and upgrade
>>>> to make sure it would last at least 1,000 years (or say at least 30),
>>>> and add to the todo list anything that might ever fail ever. This was
>>>> a recipe for negative thoughts and feelings about the van. I
>>>> struggled, even to the point of having impure thoughts about
>>>> Sprinters. At some point, I stumbled across this article, which I
>>>> found extremely helpful:
>>>>
>>>> https://worldpowersystems.com/PROJECTS/wabiTekSabi/index.html
>>>>
>>>> Among other points, it encourages thinking about objects as processes
>>>> or situations, not perfected Platonic ideals. Instead of thinking
>>>> about the van as an object I have thus far failed to perfect, it's
>>>> better to think about the process and context: the exchange of driving
>>>> the van, doing maintenance. A van by itself is meaningless...add a
>>>> driver, a 2-lane road, and that exchange of energy, and now you're
>>>> going somewhere. Instead of asking myself, "Is it perfect?", I
>>>> learned to ask, "Will it get me to the desert and back in relative
>>>> safety and comfort?" This is a much lower standard, but it gets more
>>>> to the heart of why I think we all do this. It acknowledges that,
>>>> even before you tighten that last bolt, the process of decay and
>>>> failure has started. All is flux, but that's OK.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Turning to more concrete matters, I think what Richard said about your
>>>> eyes and seat being the OBD hits the nail on the head. Being
>>>> mercilessly vigilant about understanding every creak, drip, vibration,
>>>> and smell is the best way to avoid big problems. You don't need to
>>>> fix it all, but I feel you need to understand it. For every issue or
>>>> warning sign, I ask:
>>>>
>>>> What is the root cause?
>>>>
>>>> How bad is this if it fails? (annoyance, or end of trip?)
>>>>
>>>> Is it likely to fail all at once, or slowly get worse? (Will I have
>>>> some warning that a repair is required?)
>>>>
>>>> Is there a possibility of cascading failure? (i.e., bad engine
>>>> mount->trashed exhaust)
>>>>
>>>> Can it be repaired in the field?
>>>>
>>>> Running through these questions for each issue helps me prioritize
>>>> repairs and understand the risks I am taking (or lack thereof) each
>>>> time I head out on a trip.
>>>>
>>>> What other philosophies or mind-tricks have helped you enjoy Vanagon
>>>> ownership, or simply get out and back safely?
>>>>
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 10:32 PM Richard Smith <smirby@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On reliability:
>>>>>
>>>>> I commend everyone who works on reliability, and I think it is
>>> something
>>>> we should all be mindful of. Without the "RE" you have a liability. __
>>>>>
>>>>> On the "my wife/husband hates my van because it is unreliable" theme, I
>>>> like to approach that problem from three directions:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Manage expectations. I start every (longer) trip with a reminder
>>> that
>>>> we could get towed, and that it shouldn't be seen as a disaster. This may
>>>> appease the karma gods - I haven't been towed yet - but it also sets the
>>>> tone for whatever calamity arises.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Live in the moment. If our cars didn't falter from time to time, and
>>>> we drifted along in uncaring bliss, would get get to meet those
>>> exceptional
>>>> people who rise to the occasion? Every breakdown that I have had has been
>>>> just as interesting as the rest of the trip.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Invest in your ride. Do the things that need doing, when they need
>>>> it. Replace the fuel lines. Make sure the brakes, tires, suspension are
>>> all
>>>> in good condition before you set out. This won't make it never break
>>> down,
>>>> but it will remove some of the failure points. We don't have a lot of
>>>> sensors telling us what is wrong, so your ears (and seat) are your "OBD"
>>>> system.
>>>>>
>>>>> We often mistake the reliability that we see in others' vehicles for a
>>>> completely trouble-free experience. They, too, have had their share of
>>>> breakdowns, its just that we don't see them. In my time owning Vanagons
>>>> (and a '73 bus before that), it has been no worse than lots of other
>>> cars,
>>>> and better than many.
>>>>>
>>>>> For most of us, our vanagon is >30 years old. This carries with it a
>>>> weighty responsibility in maintenance but also the need to embrace the
>>>> uncertainty that it brings with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Despite all this, it remains a joy to own, and if that comes with a
>>>> frisson of excitement because of the chance of breakdown, I'll take it.
>>> Not
>>>> for everyone, to be sure, but that's how I am dealing with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...r
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2019-06-30, 5:37 PM, "Vanagon Mailing List on behalf of Richard
>>>> Koerner" <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com on behalf of rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Which brings me to a last point. A few months ago someone
>>> mentioned
>>>> reliability as their main goal with their Westy. I am very interested in
>>>> ideas about reliability that anyone might share.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ken Wilford
>>> John 3:16
>>> www.vanagain.com
>>>
>>