Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 16:58:07 -0400
Reply-To: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: First ride of shame, fuel issue
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR20MB2098B1BC20AD321AF79BB11BA0C20@BL0PR20MB2098.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
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Significant update and van still not drivable.
Today, with the kind help of a fellow list member, my fuel pump was replaced and now the van starts.
Problem is now it is running very very rough and stalls unless foot is held to give gas.
It doesn’t start unless I pump the gas peddle. Not what I expect from this van as it starts usually with foot off the gas.
Engine sounds very rough though it sounded good earlier this week.
Today we could hear that in fact the old fuel pump was turning on but it didn’t sound like it used to for the past 7 years. It turned on and vibrated but the sound was wrong. We took off the fuel line in the engine compartment and cycled the fuel pump a few times. No fuel.
Now we have fuel but the engine sounds terrible. Starts hard with lots of gas and runs rough.
I notice also more vibration than usual.
Only thing I can do is to change the filters to see if they are restricting flow.
Other ideas about what is going on are appreciated.
Eric Caron
85 GL Auto
> On Jul 28, 2019, at 1:37 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Also note that the fuel pump power is also used to power the injectors. The ECU operates the fuel pump relay by completing the coil circuit to ground. With the pump energized the ECU "fires" the injectors by completing that circuit to ground. The ECU operates the fuel pump during cranking sensing input from starter and as long as the distributor is pulsing. The injectors "fire" once each engine revolution, (every other spark pulse) with fuel delivery controlled by the length of time they are opened. As set of NOID lights can be very handy to test injector operation. If the injectors are pulsing the fuel pump relay is good. If injectors pulsing and pump not running wiring or a bad pump is the problem.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of vw_van_fan_Mark
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 9:08 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: First ride of shame, fuel issue
>
> The relay clicking again after a moment means the ECU is controlling the FP relay as it should at that point.
>
> Your friend would only see power at the fuel pump during that very brief time between relay clicks. Probably couldn't see it on a meter since it is so brief.
>
> While the engine is cranking the ECU should turn the relay on and power the fuel pump continuously. Then measure between the + terminal of the pump and - terminal. If nothing, try measuring between the + terminal and chassis metal near the pump.
>
> If still nothing is measured at the pump, behind the air cleaner is a single wire connector that connects from the fuel injection harness and FP relay forward to the fuel pump. This wire powers the fuel pump when the ECU tells the relay to turn on.
>
> Mark
>
> Eric Caron wrote:
>> Hi listers,
>>
>> Keep the tips coming.
>>
>> Here is a update.
>>
>> Remember, this started as a loss of power going up hill then the van stopped running. It then cranked strongly but didn’t start.
>>
>> Friend check power at the fuel pump and found no power.
>>
>> I just checked the relays with the Mark method.
>> When key turned I hear two clicks and then a moment later a single click.
>>
>> This sounds like Mark’s description of working relays.
>>
>> With my next helper I hope to check for power coming from the FP relay
>>
>> I can also remove the battery and bring it to a place for testing.
>>
>> But would I have had the loss of power when the van running hard due to a bad. Battery that still cranks?
>>
>> Would the ECU be bad if I’m hearing both relays click at key turn?
>>
>> Keep the tips coming. Remember recently together we solved my last van problem with the wheel squeal. We can solve this one together.
>>
>> Eric Caron
>> 85 GL Auto
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 27, 2019, at 4:32 PM, kenneth wilford (Van-Again) <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
>>>
>>> We have been seeing failed ECUs causing this issue for a while on the
>>> 1.9ls. The ECU actually sends a signal to activate the fuel pump relay.
>>> When this part of the ECU fails then the fuel pump relay won't get
>>> activated and the fuel pump won't come on. I have seen several folks
>>> do a rig up that powers the fuel pump relay some other way (like
>>> using the power to the coil from the ignition key) and this activates
>>> the fuel pump as soon as you turn on the key and allows the van to
>>> start. However I would not continue to use the van in this condition but get a rebuilt ECU instead.
>>> If you have another Vanagon owner that is local with an 83-85 1.9l
>>> Vanagon, you could easily swap in their ECU to see if that fixes the
>>> problem. Save you a lot of troubleshooting.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 4:13 PM OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27 Jul , 2019, at 12:14 PM, Eric Caron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I’m not ruling out a bad start battery either but it does seem to
>>>>> be
>>>> operating the starter. It did so strongly on the side of the road
>>>> and a bit less so now. I have a charger on it now.
>>>>
>>>> Do have the Battery Tested ~ If You happen to have 1 Shorted
>>>> Cell & the other Cells have a good charge It will
>>>>
>>>> crank well but there will not be enough Voltage to make the ECU "Happy"
>>>> enough to allow a Start ~
>>>>
>>>> Had this happen to Me Many Many Years ago in 1 of My VDub
>>>> Vans ~
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ken Wilford
>>> John 3:16
>>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.vanagain.com&
>>> amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C0d553315e1134732956c08d712f81e8e%7C84df9e7fe9f6
>>> 40afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636998729238198403&sdata=5%2F%2F2y
>>> 5xISFvxT7T1eUXMe2SZFV4Rui3ZjFQ3M0NCrwY%3D&reserved=0
>>
