Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 18:26:52 -0400
Reply-To: Steven Johnson <sjohnso2000@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Steven Johnson <sjohnso2000@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: First ride of shame, fuel issue
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR20MB2098B8F6121653E587E67DDAA0DC0@BL0PR20MB2098.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
If you have to do so much coaxing and conniving to get it going again,I'd
say the heads
are done. Why waste time with walking/stumbling wounded. Sounds like
too much
desperation and wishful thinking. ..... It also sounds like my
father-in-laws approach
to old equipment.... ;)
Steven
91 Westy
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 5:17 PM Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> If you insist on trying to get it running again, ensure that the valves
> can move freely. Be creative with a prybar or something to push them to see
> that they move. A shop will have tools to do this. If sticking, it maybe
> possible to remove the valve springs and then work the valves free with
> some penetrant. A cordless drill carefully chucked to the valve stem can
> help rotate and get them to turn. A common cause of them seizing is deposit
> buildup between the stem and guide. This "varnish" get formed by bad gas or
> oil getting in and getting cooked in place. Also engines that sit a lot and
> get started for short periods or a lot of idling will do this. The other
> possibility is that there is galling between the valve stem and guide or
> the valve stem is bent. This won't be fixable.
>
> If you do get it running you need to be aware that it can happen again.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of Eric
> Caron
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 4:22 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: First ride of shame, fuel issue
>
> Hi Steven,
>
> I don’t know the history of the heads, most likely replacement but I don’t
> know when. Dennis re torqued them and got rid of a head gasket leak.
>
> I have used parts all needed cost me $20.00 So, I might assemble and see
> what happens. If it runs well enough to get me a few more miles great.
>
> But it sure sounds like it is new engine time for me.
>
>
> I’ll be starting a new thread for recommendations!
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 30, 2019, at 4:03 PM, Steven Johnson <sjohnso2000@GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'd like to ask what the history of the heads/engine are? How old? Are
> > they
> > replacements from original?
> >
> > Did anyone every doubt that Dennis would be spot on?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Steven
> > 91 Westy
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 3:49 PM Edward Maglott <emaglott3@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Wow I am surprised that was the issue but it does make sense! I hope
> >> not too much was damaged and you can just replace the pushrods and
> >> rocker assembly.
> >>
> >> hashtag never doubt dennis haynes
> >>
> >> Edward
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 3:29 PM Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Listers,
> >>>
> >>> More useful info in diagnostics.
> >>>
> >>> Today with Art’s help we checked over the engine.
> >>>
> >>> Then, we checked fuel Pressure, 40 PSI.
> >>>
> >>> Then we ran the engine and Art pulled off a spark plug. Engine died,
> >>> started again and pulled off next plug, engine died. Then started
> >>> again and pulled next plug, engine kept running the same. Then the
> >>> next plug
> >> as
> >>> well, engine kept running the same.
> >>>
> >>> So only two cylinders running.
> >>>
> >>> We then tested the driver’s side injectors, both are firing. Gas
> >> sprayed.
> >>> And we had spark on all plugs.
> >>>
> >>> Next Art pulled the valve cover.
> >>>
> >>> The sound Art made once he could look up there was not good.
> >>>
> >>> A nut was off the rocker assembly, another was almost off, washer
> >>> was in pieces. Push rod assembly was broken, at least three push
> >>> rods bent one badly others mildly.
> >>>
> >>> I have a used good push rod assembly here to be cleaned up and
> >>> installed and also good new used push rods. We won’t have time to
> >>> assemble today
> >> but
> >>> I’d be grateful for thoughts and tips and recommendations about this
> >>> situation.
> >>>
> >>> Once we assemble we can do a compression test, I’m pretty sure we
> >>> have access to the gage. Leakdown could be harder to do here.
> >>>
> >>> Still we are now making some progress in diagnosing the problem.
> >>>
> >>> Dennis gets points for sending us in the right direction.
> >>>
> >>> Keep the info coming.
> >>>
> >>> Eric Caron
> >>> 85 GL Auto
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Jul 29, 2019, at 5:03 PM, Dennis Haynes
> >>>> <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I mentioned the valves due to the valve train noise. Yes it is
> >>>> possible
> >>> ignition miss or even an injection problem. Not too long ago I had a
> >>> customer towed in no start. Got it started but only running on 2
> >> cylinders.
> >>> Turned out the harness was fried. Past fuel pump failure or some
> >>> other cause for a short circuit melted the wires in the FI harness.
> >>> There is no current protection for anything needed to run the
> >>> engine, ignition fuel pump, ECU, injectors etc. It will try to run
> until it can't.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dennis
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Richard Smith <smirby@gmail.com>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:58 PM
> >>>> To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
> >>>> Cc: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
> >>>> Subject: Re: First ride of shame, fuel issue
> >>>>
> >>>> I know the focus has been on fuel (and now valves), but is it
> >>>> possible
> >>> that the spark is bad on one/two cylinders? I had a similar sound
> >>> one
> >> time
> >>> when a rat (presumably) chewed a spark plug wire and it was only
> >>> running
> >> on
> >>> 3 cylinders.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 2019-07-29, 1:51 PM, "Vanagon Mailing List on behalf of Dennis
> >>> Haynes" <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com on behalf of
> >>> d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> You need to pull the valve covers and make sure all the pushrods
> >>>> are
> >>> properly seated. Then turn the engine by hand (wrench) and have
> >>> someone make sure that al the valves are properly opening and
> >>> closing. If so then compression and leak down test. Sounds like 1 or 2
> valves are stuck open.
> >>> If any of the push rods are loose they need to be pulled and checked
> >>> for bending. Yes, it happens. Any chance you got bad gas or gas
> >>> mixed with Diesel?
> >>>>
> >>>> Dennis
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf
> >>>> Of
> >>> Eric Caron
> >>>> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:29 PM
> >>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >>>> Subject: Re: First ride of shame, fuel issue
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Lister’s,
> >>>>
> >>>> I’ve included a link to the sound of engine running badly. I’ve
> >>>> at
> >>> least gotten it to start and run poorly. Maybe the sound will give
> >>> some hints.
> >>>>
> >>>> It seems to surge and vibrate.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have now changed the fuel filters. And I check the AFM
> >>>> connector
> >>> and while they're put in a new air filter.
> >>>>
> >>>> Van starts if I feather the gas. Runs with careful feathering.
> >>>> Will
> >>> eventually idle but now surges and eventually stalls. Runs with
> >> vibration.
> >>>>
> >>>> Some progress is being made but not sure where to look next.
> >>>>
> >>>> I will have more skilled help later in the week. We will have a
> >>> multi meeter and a gas pressure tester.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tips appreciated.
> >>>>
> >>>> Eric Caron
> >>>> 85 GL Auto
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww
> >> .dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fmq4ziwkiunytwjh%2FVWBUS%25202.m4a%3Fdl%3D0&dat
> >> a=02%7C01%7C%7C10d2b0c4478b43234c6108d7152b9837%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb43
> >> 5aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637001149321826585&sdata=Syj7lMpwSvB4dA3H
> >> %2FEnKH6x%2BobaZb2pLOBYFjqA5WAs%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Jul 28, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Dan N <dn92610@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> change the fuel filter AND the pressure regulator, check the TPS
> >>> (throttle body switch)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 1:58 PM Eric Caron
> >>>>> <ericcaron96@comcast.net
> >>> <mailto:ericcaron96@comcast.net>> wrote:
> >>>>> Significant update and van still not drivable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Today, with the kind help of a fellow list member, my fuel pump
> >>>>> was
> >>> replaced and now the van starts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Problem is now it is running very very rough and stalls unless
> >>>>> foot is
> >>> held to give gas.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It doesn’t start unless I pump the gas peddle. Not what I expect
> >>>>> from
> >>> this van as it starts usually with foot off the gas.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Engine sounds very rough though it sounded good earlier this week.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Today we could hear that in fact the old fuel pump was turning on
> >>>>> but
> >>> it didn’t sound like it used to for the past 7 years. It turned on
> >>> and vibrated but the sound was wrong. We took off the fuel line in
> >>> the
> >> engine
> >>> compartment and cycled the fuel pump a few times. No fuel.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now we have fuel but the engine sounds terrible. Starts hard with
> >> lots
> >>> of gas and runs rough.
> >>>>> I notice also more vibration than usual.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Only thing I can do is to change the filters to see if they are
> >>> restricting flow.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Other ideas about what is going on are appreciated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Eric Caron
> >>>>> 85 GL Auto
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
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