Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 00:43:52 -0300
Reply-To: Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@NBNET.NB.CA>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@NBNET.NB.CA>
Subject: Re: Van Cafe/ RMW solves another problem--permanently
In-Reply-To: <BCC96EF3-EECB-4BED-BAE9-D993428B03D1@shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Alistair:
It’s neither mean or harsh - my musings were not meant as a detraction from RMW has done … all business owners, myself included, are in business to make money. I also think the price is fitting for and aluminium product, but I see it as more of an upgrade than a replacement. RMW have been in this business a long time and have undoubtedly know far better than me the market size and what their clientele will support. At the moment they appear to be the only alternative, so pricing strength is on their side.
My exposure to low-volume injection moulding (in very small, though high margin, market of prosthetics) is limited and tangental. Even there, single cavity moulds for more complicated shapes were around $2-3K. Here you would need two moulds (left & right) … so say $6K. Your initial break-even may be higher than manual FAB of aluminium tanks, but it would not need to make a very large run before your production costs would be less. The product would be inferior the RMWs, but would be in-line with the original.
However, T3 owners may be closer to your Tacaoma demographic than I realise and selling an aluminium tank at $200 may be a better proposition than asking $80 - $100 for a plastic one.
Roy
> On 23-Aug-2019, at 23:53, Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA> wrote:
>
> Hey Roy,
>
> I have a different take on it. I think the price is reasonable. It’s for a very limited market, it’s apparently well designed and that takes some time, cut, bent, and tie welded aluminum.
>
> Try making a pair for less. Value your time.
>
> Rmw are in this to make money, that’s the idea. So you have to cover loads of company overhead and r&d, the fab costs, the marketing costs.
>
> I suppose you could take on the headache of trying to have it made off shore, with lower labour costs. But ain’t the Americans big on keeping jobs at home? Well that’s the line except when it comes to the price.
>
> I do not think you’ll get your investment back plus profit if you go ahead and have an injection mold made. The market is just way too small.
>
> Maybe make it up here in canada and get the benefit of the lower dollar. But that’s not keeping jobs at home.
>
> I see vanagon owners, especially the ones represented on the mailing list, as very price conscious. That’s fine, many of us can make do or make our own. But to ask a company to make a product and not have them make a good profit is short sighted and in the end self defeating.
>
> Sorry if this seems rude or harsh. Not meant to be. Company I work at makes lots of accessories for Tacoma owners. The spending habits of that demographic would make most vanagon owners, including myself, faint.
>
> Alistair
>
>> On Aug 23, 2019, at 6:23 PM, Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Richard:
>>
>> While I agree RMW has produced a nice product, it is presently an expensive one.
>>
>> I suggested 3D printing, because I am quite familiar with it. Injection moulding could also be used, it may be a little more expensive given an anticipated low production volume, but still cheaper than aluminium.
>>
>>
>>> On 23-Aug-2019, at 22:10, Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think RMW did their homework on this one. First...NLA...so you are sitting there and fretting what on earth to do to fix this? (Super critical in California by the way, for smog emissions testing.) Second...their design appears to be super stout and robust, and will most likely outlive the Vanagon. Third....it will take a few hours for the home mechanic to remove and replace their broken ones with some new ones...and if it were me, this is a job I would only like to tackle and spend the time on only once...forever. Fourth...even to save a couple hundred bucks, I would not put my trust in something like CAD printed plastics; they work by applying layer upon layer, and the fusion is critical; with aluminum sheet and TIG welding, worries are over.
>>> RMW did us a good thing. Great bang for the buck.
>>>
>>> Rich
>>> San Diego
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 23, 2019, 5:25:51 PM PDT, Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@NBNET.NB.CA> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes … but CAD could be used to 3D print a more affordable solution. If the price were right, more of us might opt for replace vs repair.
>>>
>>>> On 23-Aug-2019, at 21:21, stuartmacm@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Since they aren’t subject to high temps or pressure, they don't fail like the coolant expansion tanks do, but a rock thrown up can damage the tank and even break off one of the nipples. It's overkill, but maybe worth it for off road driving, and new ones are NLA.
>>>>
>>>> Stuart
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of Roy Nicholl
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2019 5:03 PM
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: Van Cafe/ RMW solves another problem--permanently
>>>>
>>>> Why aluminium? My current set have lasted 31+ years, so new set of plastic tanks should be expected to outlive the Hyena … and should be much cheaper to manufacture … perhaps even 3D print.
>>>>
>>>>> On 23-Aug-2019, at 19:56, Jim. Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice product but horrible to think of the price. I have a nice set of
>>>>> OEM tanks I was thinking about selling but if keeping them might save
>>>>> me half a grand someday, I think I will hang on to them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 5:52 PM Stuart MacMillan
>>>>> <stuartmacm@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Keep those TIG welders busy:
>>>>>> https://www.vancafe.com/251201303-304C-ALUMKIT-p/251201303-304c-alumk
>>>>>> it.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stuart
>>>>>>
>>>>
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