Date:         Tue, 3 Sep 2019 22:09:02 +0000
Reply-To:     Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject:      Re: Pressure bleeding brakes questions
In-Reply-To:  <BL0PR20MB20983CD52AAF74D6A4C4A050A0BE0@BL0PR20MB2098.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 I went camping last night in local mountains (6,000 feet high just an hour away from 0 elevation where I live here in San Diego).  I have been pretty diligent over the last 30 years about having brake fluid flushed and replaced every 3 years or so (because of the way brake fluid loves to suck in moisture through hoses and cause all kinds of issues at a later date).  On the way back from the mountains, my local mechanic was able to get me in (he's a small time operation...BRU Automotive for those local people interested).  Cost me $85.  I considered all the work:  writing up the job, moving the van into garage, up on lift, bleeding old stuff out, adding new stuff (removal of Instrument Cluster housing, plus the added cost of the new brake fluid itself); tidying everything up, down off lift, quick road test, back to parking lot, doing final paperwork.  Calling me to let me know job was done.  My major effort in all of this was trying to kill an hour or so walking around....and of course the $85.  Oh....BTW....they did an overall lookover while underneath vehicle, no issues to report; also, they said that the old brake fluid was basically pretty clean, not milky or dirty, good news for me...I think my hoses and lines and brake cylinders and stuff are in pretty good shape based on this.  Preventative maintenance!....I like it.

Killer deal in my opinion, and I'm good for another 3 years.
Rich
San Diego

    On Monday, September 2, 2019, 10:25:26 AM PDT, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:  
 
 Brake hoses tend to fail from the inside out. When they swell internally they can restrict fluid flow. Sometimes they even prevent the calipers/cylinders from releasing. If you don’t remember when they were change last it may be time to change them again. For me rear brake service always includes cylinders and the hoses unless Teflon or something special. Front always hoses with calipers at least getting inspected carefully and attention paid to free movement while pushing the pistons back in. 

Dennis
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Alistair Bell
Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2019 9:11 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Pressure bleeding brakes questions

Did the flush with the pressure bleeder. Had the brake pedal halfway down after half way thru right rear slave. Didn’t notice much of a difference with pedal position.

Did replace near side front flex line to caliper....had a split in it. Jeeze. 

Road test tomorrow.

Alistair 

> On Sep 1, 2019, at 11:56 AM, Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
> 
> The “aftermarket” proportioning valve fitted to the ’66 Westy, when I changed the brakes from a single cylinder master to a dual cylinder has a knob that allowing manual adjustment of the bias.  To my knowledge the bias setting is static and there is no further dynamic adjustment during braking  (I do not recall the valve needing to be mounted at a specific angle)
> 
>> On 01-Sep-2019, at 15:47, Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Yeah I’ve seen various thingies for the active brake proportioning in other vehicles. The van one is easy to over look, it’s just a cast junction thing in the frame. I’ve been going on the belief that inside it there is a ball bearing that occludes the lines to the rear brakes when the van assumes a greater than specified angle , ie on hard braking.
>> 
>> I know there is a specific angle the valve has to mounted at.
>> 
>> Alistair 
>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2019, at 11:38 AM, Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Alistair:
>>> 
>>> Not sure why your post created a “need to know” … let alone a “need to share” but here is what is in our stable:
>>> 
>>> The lever on the proportioning valve on the wife's Jetta is attached to the rear beam … so presumably as the ass-end lifts it changes the flow of fluid to the rear brakes.
>>> 
>>> My LT has load sensors which perform a similar role of adjusting the brake bias as more load is placed on the truck.
>>> 
>>> The ’88 Westy does not have a lever on its proportioning valve.  Neither does the Thing or the ’66 Westy (which has been retrofitted with a dual chamber master cylinder).
>>> 
>>> My ‘04 TDi wagon looks like there was once a lever attached to the rear beam, that has since rusted away (probably should change that ;))
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 01-Sep-2019, at 14:40, Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@NBNet.nb.ca> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I had to go look … the Jetta does have a lever on the side - presumably for adjusting the bias between front and rear.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 01-Sep-2019, at 14:37, Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@NBNET.NB.CA> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> No, I’m sure you’ll fancy something out of aluminium. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> BTW:  I don’t think any of our six VWs have lever on the proportioning valve, but I haven’t had cause to crawl under the wife’s Jetta yet.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 01-Sep-2019, at 14:30, Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’ll give it a go Roy . The “German Bentley “ was the only place i had come across that method until your reply.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But don’t have any hockey sticks to use, don’t tell anyone Roy, I’ll be deported :-)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Alistair 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2019, at 10:19 AM, Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Alistair:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For a couple of decades (or more) I've used a custom-fitted shaft from a Victoriaville stick (the same one I used as cruise-control in the ’66 Westy) to slightly depress the brake pedal when bleeding the brakes (a local VW mechanic - imported from Germany in the 70s - recommended this approach years ago.  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 01-Sep-2019, at 13:49, Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Time to flush the brakes, it’s due and an event on last trip made it even more time :-) I might post a description of what happened, but for now I have some questions.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have been using a home  made pressure bleeder for years, and it works fine. Nothing complicated, just a garden sprayer modified with pressure gauge and fluid reservoir cap  with bulkhead fitting .
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Some years ago I noticed in one of the German language manuals I have, that they go into more detail on pressure bleeding than the English Bentley. One thing especially intriguing, that is a special tool that goes between the driver’s seat and the brake pedal. It’s just and adjustable bar and it seems the brake pedal is pushed , not full way down, during pressure bleeding.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I kinda thought that the passages from the brake mc to the reservoir would be blocked during brake pedal depression and thus preventing the pressurized ( during bleeding ) fluid in reservoir from travelling thru system. Maybe the idea is only partial brake pedal depression? 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Another query is from the English Bentley, 47-8. Procedure calls for disconnection of the brake booster vacuum line at the check valve when pressure bleeding. Again I haven’t done that before. And again I don’t know why this should be needed.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Same page of Bentley, and I think this is a mistake. Calls for the pressure regulator lever to be pushed towards rear wheels. I’m pretty sure our vans don’t have a lever on the pressure regulator ( the proportioning valve under the van ).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Alistair
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>