Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 16:18:51 -0500
Reply-To: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Wheel suggestion. The spare tire carrier!
In-Reply-To: <E85CFBB0-7D49-43D2-91F9-7C83D3461D48@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi Ben,
Any chance you can send me a pay pal link for the U bolts and the rar hatch opening adaptor. I already have the hatch extension hardware.
I’ll check the steering shaft but I was thinking prevention as the new tire I’ll be using after the big brake upgrade may change the diameter a bit.
Eric Caron
> On Jan 5, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Ben T <syncro@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Hi Eric,
>
> I had provided you information on the rear hatch latch extensions before and possibly the steering shaft protector. From you recent descriptions, I don’t think you will need the protector. Your tire diameter does not seem that extreme. You should have someone have a look for rub spots on your steering shaft to determine if you need one. You may even be able to feel the difference by running your hand over the shaft. It should be smoother in parts where there has been contact with the shaft.
>
>
> BenT
>
>> On Jan 4, 2020, at 7:41 AM, Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Ben and others,,
>>
>> I’ve purchased the front part of the tire drop kit some time ago. It replaced my broken plastic pull and gave me a better fit for my 205 spare. It is a very nice piece of workmanship just as the other items I’ve received, from Ben are.
>>
>> It sounds like the U bolt solution might allow me to keep using my clam shel with the 225 65 17 tires. My van is automatic.
>> I’d prefer to have 5 matching tires and keep my clam shell if possible.
>> I’d like to give that a try. I think having the steering shaft protector would be well worth it as well.
>> Ben,
>>
>> I appreciate the usefulness, and quality of the items you have made available.
>>
>> Thesamba site is an older style form site and works very poorly with my talking computer., otherwise I would have already ordered the items.
>>
>> When you have a chance can we do a PM to get these parts and if possible the rear hatch opening adaptor?
>>
>> When my van is healthy and improved, I feel better with the world.
>>
>> Eric Caron
>> 85 GL Auto
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 3, 2020, at 8:54 PM, Ben T <syncro@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>> I make a kit to lower the clamshell sufficiently to allow a tire up to 700mm in diameter. Dennis mentions a upper limit of 27”, which is only 685.8mm. Eric’s tire size of 225/55/17 is only 679.3mm. My kit also works with the Van Cafe tire carrier.
>>>
>>> Things to keep in mind:
>>>
>>> 1) go too wide and those with 2WD manual trans may have issues with pushing the shifter into reverse. That’s because the larger and wider tire will no longer sit in the recess of the clamshell but partially on the crossmember as Dennis had pointed out.
>>>
>>> 2) I order to lower the clamshell properly with u-bolts, you need to trim a line across the back end of the hinge halves. Then in order to have them droop correctly, you need to trim the sides to the outside of each hinge half. This allow the u-bolts clearance so no enlarging the front latch bolt is needed.
>>>
>>> 3) There are two different clamshells offered on Vanagons. The ones used on vans which originally came with 205/70/14 tires have a modified latch which allows it to drop lower. If you use one of my kits, you will obviously be able to carry a wider tire than with that clamshell.
>>>
>>> 4) Very wide tires will have clearance issues with the tire rubbing against the steering shaft. Van Cafe offers a shaft protector which was originally designed by Burley. For that matter, the decide we are calling the Van Cafe carrier was originally designed by Gary Trovenger for Bill Kasper. I have also started to make shaft protectors but in stainless steel to avoid the corrosion experiences with the aforementioned version from VC.
>>>
>>> 5) I have neglected to mention that the u-bolts serve as hinge pins in place of the bailing wire tire retainers. One side of the i-bolt goes in the hinge half attached to the van and the other to the clamshell.
>>>
>>> 6) In order to accommodate the angle changes of lowering the backend, I use a solid steel spacer instead of stacking washers like some people do. You could cut a length of pipe to accomplish something similar. I find a steel bushing is better in this application. You will also need a sufficiently longer bolt. I use grade 8 because that bolt is actually what carries your spare. It’s got the correct 19mm head to accept your lugwrench. That way you don’t need to scramble for a different sized wrench to retrieve your spare. Then to hold the clamshell to bolt back on, I make a stainless steel clamshell hook with a stainless steel pulltab in place of the mild steel plastic pull and mild steel short hook. People have extended their own hook by welding or bolting an extension to the tip. For me a freshly cut piece of stainless steel for $16.50 is much more appealing and saves me time.
>>>
>>> 7) Lastly, you are probably aware that very tall (large diameter) tires may have clearance issues between the frame rails. People have had to notch the flanges. It’s a simple operation with a grinder.
>>>
>>> Here’s my Samba ad for these bits:
>>>
>>> https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1927581
>>>
>>>
>>> BenT
>>>
>>>>> On Jan 3, 2020, at 9:17 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The major limitation for the width of the tire you can get in there beyond the tray is the frame member. It is easy to cut the back of the tray and even lower the hinges but then the tire will rest on the frame member. Then your height is next limited by the steering shaft and radiator hoses. Even with the Van Café bracket 215 is the most you can get in there and 27" diameter is really pushing, especially if you have AC. In your case you also have to consider the oil cooler hoses.
>>>>
>>>> I just fitted my 91 with a GW steel wheel, 215/60-16XL tire and the Van Café holder. The tire isn't going anywhere. I have both the oil cooler set up and AC. The GW wheel also uses taper cone lugs so the when needed the same hardware for the alloys will also mount the spare.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net>
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 3, 2020 11:45 AM
>>>> To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
>>>> Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>>>> Subject: Re: Wheel suggestion.
>>>>
>>>> Hi David and Dennis,
>>>>
>>>> David, your messages don’t come directly to me, are you replying to the list or just Dennis?
>>>>
>>>> I’m also working on this spare tire issue.
>>>>
>>>> I plan to move to 17 inch tires probably 225 55 17. I’d love to have a matching wheel and tire in the carrier as I sometimes rotate. This can be helpful when alignment is a bit off and I have some tire wear issues.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to keep the tire in that spot as it may add just a little front end protection. Also, it is out of my way. Seems like a good place for the weight as well.
>>>>
>>>> I’ve heard that there are some U bolts that can be added to the clam shell in addition to the front spacer to fit the bigger tire. I am using the clam shell now with a 205 14 tire. I do have a van cafe tire holder if needed but would sure like to keep the original clam shell in service. I don’t like the way the Vancafe holder leave the tire so exposed. It is just a few bars. But also I just like keeping it as original as possible.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone out there using the U bolts successfully with the clam shell and a 225 55 17 tire?
>>>>
>>>> Eric Caron
>>>> 85 GL Auto
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 3, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Getting a slightly larger tire into the carrier is a challenge. 215 still a limit even with the Van Café tire holder. Removing the top spring bars is a start and using a spacer for the front bolt to drop it down some also helps. For those indentations what really happened is that the pressure made the heat damage from the radiator. This is not a great place for a tire.
>>>>> For the 2WD there is no need to maintain a matched spare. A slight difference in diameter is OK to run to get you home or to a tire replacement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: David M <covrambles@yahoo.com>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 3, 2020 1:30 AM
>>>>> To: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com; Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Wheel suggestion.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've found that anything bigger than 205/70-14 won't fit in the spare tire bay.
>>>>> In the past I bought some brand new 215-70-14 tires and put one in the spare tire bay. When I took it out a couple of years later I found the sidewall had been pushed in and the tire was useless.
>>>>> So I don't think I'd trust carrying anything wider than 205 in there.
>>>>>
>>>>> -David (1987 Wolfsburg Vanagon)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, January 2, 2020, 9:23:08 AM MST, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com<mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 205/70-14 tires especially with the XL rating are getting rare and the choices are limited. I agree that wheels should not be modified. Get what fits and I even resist spacers. The Vanagon alloys are very stout wheels however at 30+ years of service some need to be taken out of service. Even the steel wheels are well past their prime. The main reasons I have taken them out of service include corrosion on the bead surface and worn out lug seats. Yes, I seen them were they won’t clamp down and stay tight. Another driver for wheel upgrades is the ability to upgrade the brakes. Of course the need there can also be debated. I’ve had some annoying experiences with some of the options.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Since you have the alloys you can go up to 225/70-14. Load index for this size is 98 or 99. Here is an example:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Kinergy+ST&partnum=27TR4H735&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tirerack.com%2Ftires%2Ftires.jsp%3FtireMake%3DHankook%26tireModel%3DKinergy%2BST%26partnum%3D27TR4H735%26vehicleSearch%3Dfalse%26fromCompare1%3Dyes&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0f30e5932897416c3ced08d79017d065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637136304261189889&sdata=D6RNs20n3MJoy5hxsxeFzL%2Fw0rlrloFf9IQJtOPh5qo%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This tire is rated to 51 psi inflation and 1,709 pounds. It is just about 1” taller than the 205/70. Full load rating is reached at 35 psi. Between 36 and 51 that is for handling and fuel economy. As it is a tall sidewall tire you want to run at the higher pressures. 38-42 front and 48 rear should work well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of the steel wheels are only 5.5 inch wide so they are limited to a 215 width.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: David M <covrambles@yahoo.com<mailto:covrambles@yahoo.com>>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2020 4:41 PM
>>>>> To: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com<mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>; Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM<mailto:d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Wheel suggestion.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There's no way I'd ever attempt modifying wheels myself. I don't have the tools or the know-how.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've concluded it's all too complex and expensive to switch wheels so I'm just going to stick with my original 14" alloys and get new 205/70-14 tires for them. Then I can put the spare wheel/tire where it's supposed to go.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -David (1987 Wolfsburg Vanagon)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, 11:49:36 PM MST, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com<mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Don’t forget that in some areas we also have to pay sales tax, even on used eBay purchases.
>>>>> For the Benz wheels you need to pay attention to the lug style. Some use a ball seat. When drilling out the 12mm for 14mm application the ball may not match up. The larger Benzs use 14mm lugs.
>>>>> Benz applications are also hub-centric so using those wheels on a Vanagon changes the design.
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy New Year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com<mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>> On Behalf Of David M
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 8:41 PM
>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM<mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Wheel suggestion.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem with eBay wheels is they are nearly all for sale by dealers for $150-$200 each. And the shipping costs are the killer.I prefer the look of the 65382 Mercedes wheel. It's also 16x7 and ET31.Who did you get to drill out the lug holes?Is that costly?
>>>>> Your link to the photo of your van did not work.
>>>>>
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, 4:06:21 PM MST, Jack R <jack007@comcast.net<mailto:jack007@comcast.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I paid $400 for 16" Benz wheels with 31 Off-Set, had to drill out to 14MM.
>>>>> Found a great set on E-Bay. These are OEM Benz, much stronger than the Made in China rims.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's the rim, currently available, so if you keep looking for it on Ebay, you may find a deal on a set.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FOEM-Reman-16x7-Alloy-Wheel-Rim-Bright-Sparkle-Silve&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce14782a5503b4427d50408d78e5bac0d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637134396721403555&sdata=uv%2FBIY8eU53e2O%2BL9XCjuufCggdGhef9JMri2HPABIQ%3D&reserved=0<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FOEM-Reman-16x7-Alloy-Wheel-Rim-Bright-Sparkle-Silve&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0f30e5932897416c3ced08d79017d065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637136304261199894&sdata=ALHbzW0ov37TLNH3pVs8ySfytPj6bEm66MF222xlhJY%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>> r-Full-Face-Painted-65440/303408174143?epid=752178771&hash=item46a489543f:g:
>>>>> hLYAAOSwkedeCeBj
>>>>>
>>>>> They look good on my 84 Westy.
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.google.com%2Fphoto%2FAF1QipN_82RX9-LbSGNZE5EVtTTzQmKz25JnLZyec9K6&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce14782a5503b4427d50408d78e5bac0d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637134396721403555&sdata=JV%2FZ%2FZrKXhTqGUJJCvbORWoE3f4lfRrCAG%2BAQqYFdgc%3D&reserved=0<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.google.com%2Fphoto%2FAF1QipN_82RX9-LbSGNZE5EVtTTzQmKz25JnLZyec9K6&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0f30e5932897416c3ced08d79017d065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637136304261209905&sdata=MSXgvGYWr1WX9q7tGHFj4SMVweIERcudVMWkjeO3dgc%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com<mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>] On Behalf Of Dennis Haynes
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 12:27 PM
>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM<mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>>> Subject: Wheel suggestion.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a wheel I have fitted on a number of Vanagons. The 32mm offset is near perfect, direct fit on Syncros. On the 2WD it may hit the upper ball joint requiring a 3mm spacer. This is due to the 8 inch width. It is rated for 1,850 pounds. I'm running these on Fun Bus. If using the GoWesty HD drums the thickness of those will space the rears out to match the 3mm spacers in front. With spacers you should use longer studs/bolts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FUltra-402S-%D0%A1ustom-Wheel-pattern%2Fdp%2FB07TDQC6Y7%2Fref%3Dsr_&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce14782a5503b4427d50408d78e5bac0d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637134396721403555&sdata=Icy%2B5oiybH8JhihTQDiFp5l4aUyQE3%2B0lzvqL5%2Bz8RI%3D&reserved=0<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FUltra-402S-%D0%A1ustom-Wheel-pattern%2Fdp%2FB07TDQC6Y7%2Fref%3Dsr_&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0f30e5932897416c3ced08d79017d065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637136304261219910&sdata=Ito67R%2Ft51Q0cxAYe76JXFap4BqaPwbWDoZP%2FbubdOA%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1_20_sspa?keywords=ultra+wheels+17%22+5X112&qid=1577812695&sr=8-20-spons&psc
>>>>> =1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExNjNOTlU0RjNMNzlPJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDk4
>>>>> NzU0QjEzTEtIWktDM04yJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAzNzMzMjUxTVRXTUFXTTRYR1k2JndpZGdl
>>>>> dE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
>>>>
>>
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