Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:29:25 -0700
Reply-To: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: found some freon 12 should I recharge old AC
In-Reply-To: <01c001d61221$9b97dcd0$d2c79670$@hiwaay.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Wouldn't the dye in the refrigerant reveal that leak, Tom?
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:58 PM Tom Hargrave <thargrav@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> Could be the compressor front seal. The seal is just an oil film between
> very close fitting parts.
>
> Thanks, Tom Hargrave
> www.kegkits.com – Electric Brewery Info
> www.towercooler.com – Beer Tower Cooler
> http://goo.gl/niRzVw - My Amazon Store
> www.brew-control.com – Electric Brewery Marketing and Direct Sales
> http://www.hackpilot.com/roadkill/ - A little twisted humor
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf
> Of Stephen Grisanti
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 11:19 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: found some freon 12 should I recharge old AC
>
> A Samba thread on R134a conversion from a few years ago involved
> replacing all the hoses. He removed them and had a shop put the stock ends
> on new barrier hose, as I recall, and I think he reported it cost about
> $200 at the time.
> I can never find the link when I want to but it involved an '87 Westy like
> mine. Stephen
> On Monday, April 13, 2020, 10:57:02 PM EDT, David McNeely <
> davmcneely40@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tom, I don't know if your response was meant for me. I converted to
> R134a long ago. Cools great when it gets a new charge, but leaks down over
> half the summer, and no one can find the leak. So, I thought -- based on
> Denis's comment to the original poster, "Aha, might be hoses." mcneely
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 6:56 PM Tom Hargrave <thargrav@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>
> > If you are considering swapping to R134a, by now the old hoses should
> > not be an issue because they have been fully saturated with
> > refrigerant oil and won't leak.
> >
> > But like someone else mentioned the tough part will be to find someone
> > willing to convert your system. Most AC shops dumped or upgraded their
> > R12 recovery systems long ago, when the R12 to R134 conversion
> > business finally went away.
> >
> > You will have three issues with a conversion.
> >
> > 1. A conversion drops about 20% of the system's cooling capacity.
> > 2. The expansion valve is the wrong size and should be replaced.
> > 3. The compressor front seal will leak R134a because its molecule size
> > is smaller than R12.
> >
> > In other words, to do it right you have to replace the compressor,
> > receiver dryer and expansion valve and you still lose about 20% of the
> > system's capacity.
> >
> > You are better off testing for pressure. If your system still retains
> > any pressure by now, have it serviced and drive it as is.
> >
> > Thanks, Tom Hargrave
> > www.kegkits.com – Electric Brewery Info www.towercooler.com – Beer
> > Tower Cooler http://goo.gl/niRzVw - My Amazon Store
> > www.brew-control.com – Electric Brewery Marketing and Direct Sales
> > http://www.hackpilot.com/roadkill/ - A little twisted humor
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On
> > Behalf Of David McNeely
> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 3:21 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: found some freon 12 should I recharge old AC
> >
> > Dennis, you said that the original poster's "... hoses are also old
> > and not designed for R134a." Some years ago, I had my AC system (1991
> > VW Vanagon GL Campmobile) converted to R134a. Based on extensive
> > investigation before having the conversion done, I believe everything
> > except hoses was done. The system has never held refrigerant well
> > since. It will cool beautifully after a fill, then drop off in
> > effectiveness until it is kaput about half summer through. It has had
> > dye added to the refrigerant, and searched for leaks, with none
> > evident. Could the old hoses (originals) be the problem?
> >
> > Thank you, mcneely
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 12:54 PM Dennis Haynes
> > <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > FWIW since you are asking this question you probably should not be
> > > servicing the AC system without some help. Since the system has been
> > > neglected it is likely to be contaminated with moisture and the oil
> > > probably also needs to be serviced. The proper procedure would be to
> > > test for pressure and have anything inside it recovered. Good luck
> > > finding a shop with R12 recovery equipment. Sell the cans. You will
> > > need about 1,300 grams to fill an empty system. AC systems are magic.
> > > Even under pressure they somehow manage to get moisture inside. Most
> > > likely small leaks on the suction side including the compressor
> > > shaft
> > seal.
> > >
> > > If the system was really empty for a long time then the
> > > receiver/dryer should be replaced and it would be a good idea to
> > > change the compressor oil and plan to convert to R134a or one of the
> > > other "magic" refrigerants out there.
> > >
> > > Then you pressurize the system with nitrogen and ensure it can hold
> > > pressure, at least overnight.
> > > Then you need to evacuate the system. The longer the better. You
> > > want to boil off all moisture and other contaminants in the system.
> > > A small amount of moisture can play all sorts of havoc. The nastiest
> > > is ice crystals blocking the expansion valve and causing the
> > > compressor to dead head. The
> > > 85 does not have much in the way of safeties and even better systems
> > > this will often result in blown compressors, hoses, switches etc.
> > > Then charge, by weight. They say R134a should be 80-85% of the fill
> > > for R12. I find the Vanagon really works best 1,300-1,400 grams.
> > > Don't forget the add the required amount of compressor oil. If still
> > > some mineral oil in there use Ester. If you really got the system
> > > cleaned you can use the preferred PAG oil for R134.
> > >
> > > The earlier AC systems are a bit disappointing especially the campers.
> > > Upgrading the condenser to one of the parallel flow universal ones
> > > help a lot. They also allow for better airflow helping both the AC
> > > and
> > radiator.
> > > Your hoses are also old and not designed for R134a. Typically though
> > > the common leak points are the condenser, the compressor and the
> > > receiver dryer.
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Spencer Allen
> > > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 10:36 AM
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: found some freon 12 should I recharge old AC
> > >
> > > Found two 1LB cans of R12 in my late uncles garage. My 85 Westys AC
> > > worked when I bought it 20 years ago but only used it a couple of
> > > times at first and then not at all. It's probably been 15 years
> > > since I last used it and it blew cold during that time. Since then
> > > on the occasions when I turn it on just to run it no cold air comes
> > > out. I hear this old stuff is really expensive so since I have these
> > > (free) cans sitting here I'm tempted to hook up my hoses and recharge
> system.
> > > Any thoughts or input on this idea?Spencer85Westy
> > >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
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> >
> >
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>
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