Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:22:43 -0700
Reply-To: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: found some freon 12 should I recharge old AC
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR10MB2894099155435ABD24E07E41A0DD0@SN6PR10MB2894.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
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thanks, Dennis. So, I get about half a summer from a charge. Techs cannot
find a leak. I have not investigated how much new hoses would cost. Ball
park? Also, maybe new evaporator? Hoses plus evaporator, that's going to
bee pretty costly! If searching for leak, shouldn't the tech have opened
up enough to check the evaporator and associated connections?
Thanks, mcneely
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 1:44 PM Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Yes it is possible that you have a bad hose. From experience except for
> hoses that are physically damaged I have not had much luck fixing them with
> hoses only. So I hesitate just little to say replace all the hoses
> especially those that are budget conscious. It is a lot of work! The
> hardest leaks to find are the evaporator and maybe the expansion valve.
> Most do not suspect the evaporator as it has no way to get damaged but I
> have experience some with pin hole or solder joint leaks at the elbows.
> Bulk R134a is relatively inexpensive now. I succumb that if a charges last
> a year or longer than we are probably as good as we can get. The AC on Fun
> Bus is still all original except for the Condenser which was replaced a
> long time ago, under warranty. The tell tale was the refrigerant oil
> dripping near the hose manifold. Typically I get about 18 months. When it
> does need juice I do a recovery and usually get less than ½ pound out. I
> then do a full evacuation and charge. I find that R134a systems work best
> with all new refrigerant and the bulk stuff works much better than the
> cans. Virgin vs. recycled maybe. I’ve done enough of these that I have the
> stuff to crimp the hoses which helps when doing mods like upgrading the
> condenser.
>
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* David McNeely [mailto:davmcneely40@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 4:21 PM
> *To:* Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> *Subject:* Re: found some freon 12 should I recharge old AC
>
>
>
> Dennis, you said that the original poster's "... hoses are also old and
> not designed for R134a." Some years ago, I had my AC system (1991 VW
> Vanagon GL Campmobile) converted to R134a. Based on extensive investigation
> before having the conversion done, I believe everything except hoses was
> done. The system has never held refrigerant well since. It will cool
> beautifully after a fill, then drop off in effectiveness until it is kaput
> about half summer through. It has had dye added to the refrigerant, and
> searched for leaks, with none evident. Could the old hoses (originals) be
> the problem?
>
>
>
> Thank you, mcneely
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 12:54 PM Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> FWIW since you are asking this question you probably should not be
> servicing the AC system without some help. Since the system has been
> neglected it is likely to be contaminated with moisture and the oil
> probably also needs to be serviced. The proper procedure would be to test
> for pressure and have anything inside it recovered. Good luck finding a
> shop with R12 recovery equipment. Sell the cans. You will need about 1,300
> grams to fill an empty system. AC systems are magic. Even under pressure
> they somehow manage to get moisture inside. Most likely small leaks on the
> suction side including the compressor shaft seal.
>
> If the system was really empty for a long time then the receiver/dryer
> should be replaced and it would be a good idea to change the compressor oil
> and plan to convert to R134a or one of the other "magic" refrigerants out
> there.
>
> Then you pressurize the system with nitrogen and ensure it can hold
> pressure, at least overnight.
> Then you need to evacuate the system. The longer the better. You want to
> boil off all moisture and other contaminants in the system. A small amount
> of moisture can play all sorts of havoc. The nastiest is ice crystals
> blocking the expansion valve and causing the compressor to dead head. The
> 85 does not have much in the way of safeties and even better systems this
> will often result in blown compressors, hoses, switches etc. Then charge,
> by weight. They say R134a should be 80-85% of the fill for R12. I find the
> Vanagon really works best 1,300-1,400 grams. Don't forget the add the
> required amount of compressor oil. If still some mineral oil in there use
> Ester. If you really got the system cleaned you can use the preferred PAG
> oil for R134.
>
> The earlier AC systems are a bit disappointing especially the campers.
> Upgrading the condenser to one of the parallel flow universal ones help a
> lot. They also allow for better airflow helping both the AC and radiator.
> Your hoses are also old and not designed for R134a. Typically though the
> common leak points are the condenser, the compressor and the receiver
> dryer.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
> Of Spencer Allen
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 10:36 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: found some freon 12 should I recharge old AC
>
> Found two 1LB cans of R12 in my late uncles garage. My 85 Westys AC worked
> when I bought it 20 years ago but only used it a couple of times at first
> and then not at all. It's probably been 15 years since I last used it and
> it blew cold during that time. Since then on the occasions when I turn it
> on just to run it no cold air comes out. I hear this old stuff is really
> expensive so since I have these (free) cans sitting here I'm tempted to
> hook up my hoses and recharge system. Any thoughts or input on this
> idea?Spencer85Westy
>
>
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