Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 16:07:59 -0400
Reply-To: Jack R <jack007@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jack R <jack007@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: oil viscosity... best 10W60 brand / option?
In-Reply-To: <CY4PR0801MB3731671B36CFB6BC9CA6CCE4A0880@CY4PR0801MB3731.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
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After watching the "Project Farm" Oil test video...
It sure makes a great case for Pennzoil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWuKvnCq1js
If it is good enough for Ferrari it should be good enough for my Westy!
https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/1a88150e-4be5-431f-ae2a-6b7b438bfee1.pdf
There is one issue, to get an acceptable price, you have to buy 5 gallons at a time from Wally World.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pennzoil-Platinum-Racing-Oil-10W-60-SN-5-Gallon/148346169
Jack
Snake-oil test... "Project Farm" tested many oil additives.
The top two are: BestLine and MotorKote.
Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88vwUwa3igQ&t=21s
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Haynes
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 8:29 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: oil viscosity.
Note the recommended oil viscosities below. I also sent a link with a copy of the oil viscosity chart from an owner's manual.
While lubricants have improved especially for premium or synthetic fluids there are some design features that call for the use of higher viscosity oil for our engines.
Amongst them include loose tolerances, the poor pump design, case expansion, etc all contribute to difficulty maintaining oil pressure.
To this add the speed and load combination can cause oil temperature to rise, which will further reduce viscosity and then added to the oil pump and engine case expansion things come loose and oil pressure drops further. At some point things can get out of control and then we get the oil pressure warning light and buzzer and when things get real bad we get the blown engine.
So looking at these specs here are some points.
Note the 20w-40 or 50 is good for anything above 14F. Especially for vehicles seldom used in winter weather there is no reason or benefit to use a different oil.
Note on the owner's manual chart the multi-weight oils (20w-50) are only good up to 80F. This is an air cooled left over and while it really isn’t accurate is why some manufacturers and probably GoWesty call for 10w-60 oils.
So looking at the numbers, the lower viscosity number refers to the oil at 40C, 104F. The higher number is at 100C, 212F.
Especially with the 2.1L and the oil cooler (!) the oil temp will always get up the coolant temp, and more depending on speed and load. With an 87C, 188.6F stat true coolant temp will likely be about 97C, 206F. These numbers seem to check out with all the GoWesty EFI conversions I've done and reading with the scan gauge.
From experience with an oil temp gauge 210F or so seems to be where they run at a minimum with little change based on outside temps. Temps does go up due to load or waiting for the radiator fan. Add enough speed long enough and 230-240 is not uncommon. Kick it down a gear and hold 5,000 rpm and you can see 270F.
So back to viscosity. These numbers do not indicate what happens at extremes. They tells us what the oil is trying to do from early warm up through operating temperature. Many consider the ideal viscosity is to maintain the 30 weight. Below and above the 212F the viscosity will lower than that 40 0r 50 number. As we go through warm up or if we have a really good oil system that can stay below 212F we can be sure to maintain close to the 30 weight we want. As some thought most all oil cooler thermostats out there try to work between 160-180F. Someone though this through.
So even with a cooler the higher viscosity oil is probably the better choice.
Dennis
Viscosities:
-20 To 10....10W-30, 10W-40
-15 To 30....15W-40, 15W-50
-10 To 10....20W-20
Above 14 F .20W-40, 20W-50
0 To 30....30
Capacities: With filter 4.8 quarts After refill check oil level.
Torques: Oil Drain Plug...18 ft/lbs
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=S4iMEPFq&id=12FBA96077C505C47CD5AC43C988EE48AD7D49A3&thid=OIP.S4iMEPFq3rraNd4FbEHcVgHaFU&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.thesamba.com%2fvw%2farchives%2fmanuals%2f1985vanagon%2f56.jpg&exph=881&expw=1227&q=vanagon+oil+viscosity&simid=608005607518505544&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Todd
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 6:26 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject:
I have run 20W50 during the summer periodically as well - but used to run it more frequently in my air cooled buses.
OK - to answer Dave's questions - the motor is the stock unit with 312,000 km - or about 195,000 miles on it. The heads have been replaced twice.
Not much in modifications other than a stainless steel exhaust system.
Most coolant hoses have been replaced and I have replaced all fuel lines twice since I've had it. Doesn't leak or go through too much oil or seem to have any oil pressure issues. I usually run Castrol GTX 10-40
(non-synthetic) with a Mann or Mahle filter. I don't have air conditioning and we usually take the van camping - filling it with about 375 lbs of people in addition to camping gear and food.
We typically travel around the Pacific Northwest - lots of mountain ranges and moderate to warmer temperatures but not too much humidity. I tend to drive side roads / secondary highways - approximately 50 to 65 MPH (3200 to 3600 RPM is usually my target) and a steady 65 on main highways / interstates.
Bruce
On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 12:43 PM ddbjorkman@verizon.net < ddbjorkman@verizon.net> wrote:
> A little more info on your engine (miles, upgrades/changes, recent
> work) would be helpful. Not quite sure what you mean about vibratory motion.
> What is that? Engine itself or accessories? Alternator moving or are
> you talking about armature movement?
>
> Dave B.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Todd <beeceetee@GMAIL.COM>
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Sent: Tue, Jun 2, 2020 3:19 pm
>
> I see GoWesty is recommending 10/60 weight - synthetic. As it
> happens, I recently went to purchase oil and a filter at a local auto
> parts store to complete a pre-summer oil change - as the van has sat
> over the winter and I am about to take it out of hibernation. I
> usually run 10/40 or 15/40 in the warmer months and 10/30 in the
> winter (back when I used to drive it then). The sales clerk also
> suggested I try 10/160 so I bought 5 litres, but have yet to change it
> as I thought I'd get a little feed-back from the list without causing
> too long of an oil thread. Worst case, I'll take the oil back.
>
> As well - I have been meaning to ask about alternator play or
> vibration. I am curious if other 2.1 Vanagons typically have
> noticeable vibratory movement from the motor which is passed along to
> the alternator? There have been a number of mechanics over time that
> have peered in the engine bay while the motor has idled and have never
> mentioned a problem. Just curious to see if this is a standard fare?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce
>
> 86 Westy Syncro
>
