Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 08:41:32 -0600
Reply-To: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Logging roads and trailers
In-Reply-To: <CAG0-GTzNnVoOcjExnPck1yg=YXRysL=aQWjDz4cMaRaz_M3Jog@mail.gmail.com>
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Dear Seemingly UnAble to address People By Name
What's Up With That, RW ??
ORR ~ DeanB
On 21 Jul , 2020, at 12:43 AM, Roger Whittaker wrote:
> Dear Logging adventure folks
>
> "There are a ton of assumptions (most negative sounding in nature). Maybe
> we can have a conversation instead of trying to prove how
> wrong/stupid/naive the rest of us are."
>
> I see no assumptions -- I see a list of questions that anyone attempting to
> travel on an INDUSTRIAL ROAD potentially filled with INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH
> traffic should ask their self -
> i also see a list of stuff that I have encountered while working in that
> environment -
>
> Your original question was about being a newbie on logging roads and how a
> trailer would handle -
> indeed it is "I know several of you travel the logging roads for
> camping/exploring.
> *Having just done this last week, for my first time*,"
>
> I still believe more importantly the question should be how does the
> operator handle self and are they prepared for the unpredictability of
> the situation they are entering
>
> You can take the remarks any way you like :)
>
> Not trying to point out how stupid anyone is -
> Caps are for emphasis -
> currently in my community there is a raging battle going on between people
> who want trails to be walking only and those who utilize mountain bike -
> this is just a smaller argument of the access to logging roads and the
> belief that tax payers pay for them so why should there be gates and cement
> blocks or rocks blocking access -
> Typically the roads are private or paid for by stumpage and maintained by
> logging company - typically the logging company may be liable for what
> happens on them -
> And as said -- in Canada the logging roads are often part of FN territory -
> with many restrictions - LIke right now - FN have restrictions up
> against any outsiders entering their lands due to COVID -
>
> I have had to put work plans together to manage public access to areas that
> the public thought they had a right to enter and camp in - or drive through
> - or simply hang around exploring for the day -
> After plan implemented - we have to go back three days later and replace
> all the barriers due to destruction completed by those who wanted to travel
> the area - regardless of fish habitat or danger due to potential of dam
> opening - or active blasting etc
>
> If you did not know there was so many pieces to the puzzle - that is fine -
> many dont - no need to be 'hurt' because the pieces of the puzzle have been
> presented -
>
> I do annual Safety talks for logging companies - i speak for close to 6
> hours on a day that starts at 7 am -
> WCB rep speaks for the other hour -
> I have investigated numerous incidents -
> I have read a bazziolon reports of other incidents - on logging roads and
> countless other terrain -
> I charge 1000$ for the day of Safety talk - typically anywhere from 50 to
> 100 guys & gals in the room
>
> I also hosted two seperate safety conferences with budgets >10K for the day
> -
> 100% supported by community - and free for workers to attend -
> Safety is 2 things - being prepared for the eventual likely hood of an
> event and dealing with the event when it happens
>
> I begin every talk by asking for the stupid people to raise thier hand - no
> one does (maybe i should have started my response that way ??_ )
> No one ever raises their hand and i say _ Good I am glad to see that
> becasue I dont think any company hires stupid people - So I do not want to
> hear foreman or supervisors saying what ever incident we are talking about
> today was just stupid - or you cant fix stupid - because stupid does not
> work here -
>
> I have been doing these talks since 2001
> and i am not even the smartest log in the wood pile - indeed all my real
> credentials are is i will stand and deliver for 5-7 hours and still make
> sense -
>
> Enjoy the journey :)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:40 PM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Roger,
>>
>> Thanks for the insights but wow that’s a lot of caps key and caffeine.
>> There are a ton of assumptions (most negative sounding in nature). Maybe we
>> can have a conversation instead of trying to prove how wrong/stupid/naive
>> the rest of us are.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Harry
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:21 PM Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Would be Logging Road Traveler
>>>
>>> I spent a number of years as safety manager for a builder of logging
>>> roads -
>>> On a logging road - ANY TIME IS LOADED LOGGING TRUCK TIME -
>>>
>>> There are some who view these roads as free for all to use any time they
>>> want -
>>> This is not the case -
>>> Question # one - are your tires rated for stones and extra rough road -
>>> are all your joints and steering components greased -
>>> Question # two if you have a failure of any of items can you get off
>>> road on your own power - so as not to block road -
>>> Question # three Who is your travel plan filed with - does cell phone
>>> work there or do you have a HOT SPOT with text capability -
>>> Question # Four - You know that AAA or CAA will not come and fetch you -
>>>
>>> A> In Canada very often the logging road will lead to - or cross an
>>> Indian Reservation and that First Nation may have jurisdictional sway over
>>> traffic flow and permissions to travel
>>> B> Nearly every logging road has a sign at the place where the Logging
>>> Road intersects highway - that sign will delineate behaviors to be followed
>>> on the road - during active haul times -
>>> ACTIVE HAUL TIMES ARE ANYTIME - even if the sign offers typical times -
>>> you could meet a truck coming 'DOWN LOADED' at any time - Lets say the
>>> logging roads active hours are 3 am to 3 pm monday to saturday - you
>>> arrive at road side at 5 pm saturday evening -
>>> 1. DO YOU have a radio that can be tuned to frequency used by haulers on
>>> that road?
>>> 2. DO YOU know for sure that every truck up Empty has Come down loaded ?
>>> 3. Do you have any way to announce your intention to travel up ?
>>> 4. Are Loaded Trucks your only concern ?
>>> 5. Do you know that the mechanics and service trucks have all booked off
>>> for the night and are safely off road ?
>>> 6. DO you know what a turn out on the road is for ?
>>> 7. DO YOU know if logger's ambulance is not heading out with injured
>>> workers - they typically DO NOT have sirens -
>>>
>>> THERE ARE SEVERAL SECTIONS Around here that are deemed LEFT HAND UP -
>>> LEFT HAND DOWN - does driver understand fully the consequence of not being
>>> on the proper side of the road??
>>> Then there is the idea of your own trailer -
>>> 1. If you have a trailer breakdown along the way does your vehicle have
>>> the ability to pull trailer off the road ?
>>> 2. if you are caught in a jackpot - not even your own jackpot - lets say
>>> a logging truck has left the road and you are held up from your desired
>>> camping spot while they extricate the upset truck - which may involve
>>> getting a load of heavy equipment (or two) past your rig - can you get your
>>> rig sufficiently off the road -- DO YOU KNOW HOW TO BACK UP YOUR RIG ?? DO
>>> YOU KNOW HOW TO BACK UP YOUR RIG IN THE DARK ? CAN YOU DO A THREE POINT
>>> REVERSE TURN WITH YOUR RIG ?? -- IF YOU ANSWER no TO ANY OF THESE - you
>>> should not be on Logging road with a rig -- and preferably you should be
>>> able to answer yes to all three questions - If you are answering no to any
>>> of these three questions you need to practice - Not a Joke !!
>>>
>>> More over if you are held up are you or your guests going to be idiots
>>> demanding that road be cleared to let you get on your way - (real world
>>> events - that happened to me ) more than once - and once during active
>>> blasting - had to get local law enforcement involved in that one -
>>> Along with that police or first responders may not have a clue where you
>>> are or how to get to you if you require rescue (do you have a GPS device )
>>> NOT A phone but a dedicated GPS -
>>>
>>> Second to that - what do you do when you reach a rope across road that
>>> has a sign remarking about active falling - or active blasting -
>>> DO YOU take rope down and continue because the sign is only to inform
>>> loggers and you are not a logger ???
>>> DO YOU Take rope down and leave it on the ground because it is after 3 PM
>>> on a Friday - the loggers can put it back when they come to work ?
>>> Do you know what blaster signals mean ?? do you know how close to the
>>> back of a logging truck you can travel to be outside the swing zone ?
>>>
>>> Sometimes two or three loaded trucks will head down and only the first
>>> one will call miles on the way down - the first one goes by and the haplass
>>> traveler pulls back onto road only to meet truck #2 head on - and yes this
>>> is a real world event that happened -
>>>
>>> One afternoon i was heading down - part way down i had that huge urge of
>>> nature calling right now - in only the way a rough and bouncy logging road
>>> can produce in the late afternoon -
>>> I stopped my pick up - I had not heard a call out on the radio -- but a
>>> little voice in my head told me to pull as far to the left as possible - so
>>> before exiting truck i did that - pulled my pick up off into a turn out -
>>> and let nature call - just as I was finishing that 'streaming episode' a
>>> loaded truck down roared past my location - I had no idea they were there -
>>> -
>>>
>>> on another occasion I was coming down and met a camper on way up - truck
>>> with camper and loaded with family kids and all - I let them know there was
>>> both active falling and active blasting on going that day - they told me
>>> not to mind about them as they were going up early to get a good spot - --
>>> They had no radio =--- with out telling them i radioed up to road channel
>>> that this ship of sillies was on the way into an active work area --
>>>
>>> Use abundant caution my friends when on logging roads - they are called
>>> logging roads due to the reason for creation - they are not called lets go
>>> camping roads
>>>
>>> AND I HAVE not even addressed the multitude of walkers - people on bikes
>>> - people on horses - or joe racing becky on ATV to see who gets to lake
>>> first -
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:00 AM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences and helpful guidance!
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Harry
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:52 AM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Volks,
>>>>>
>>>>> I know several of you travel the logging roads for camping/exploring.
>>>>> Having just done this last week, for my first time, I was wondering if
>>>>> anyone has brought trailers along? The roads are really rough so I
>>>>> wasn't sure how well a trailer would handle the roads.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Harry
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
>>> http://www.tvthatworks.com
>>> http://www.tvpowellriver.com
>>> LinkedIn -
>>>
>>> - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work
>>> at: http://www.prliving.ca/
>>> View the growing list of video work at:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
>>> http://vimeo.com/42309497
>>>
>>> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
> http://www.tvthatworks.com
> http://www.tvpowellriver.com
> LinkedIn -
>
> - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work at:
> http://www.prliving.ca/
> View the growing list of video work at:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
> http://vimeo.com/42309497
>
> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt
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