Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 13:09:52 -0700
Reply-To: Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Logging roads and trailers
In-Reply-To: <1B792D60-2650-4324-8EE4-FD135351A14C@comcast.net>
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Dear questioning
I was raised by a house ful of John Prine recordings ") RIP J Prine
On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:42 AM OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
> Dear Seemingly UnAble to address People By Name
>
> What's Up With That, RW ??
>
> ORR ~ DeanB
>
> On 21 Jul , 2020, at 12:43 AM, Roger Whittaker wrote:
>
> > Dear Logging adventure folks
> >
> > "There are a ton of assumptions (most negative sounding in nature). Maybe
> > we can have a conversation instead of trying to prove how
> > wrong/stupid/naive the rest of us are."
> >
> > I see no assumptions -- I see a list of questions that anyone attempting
> to
> > travel on an INDUSTRIAL ROAD potentially filled with INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH
> > traffic should ask their self -
> > i also see a list of stuff that I have encountered while working in that
> > environment -
> >
> > Your original question was about being a newbie on logging roads and how
> a
> > trailer would handle -
> > indeed it is "I know several of you travel the logging roads for
> > camping/exploring.
> > *Having just done this last week, for my first time*,"
> >
> > I still believe more importantly the question should be how does the
> > operator handle self and are they prepared for the unpredictability of
> > the situation they are entering
> >
> > You can take the remarks any way you like :)
> >
> > Not trying to point out how stupid anyone is -
> > Caps are for emphasis -
> > currently in my community there is a raging battle going on between
> people
> > who want trails to be walking only and those who utilize mountain bike -
> > this is just a smaller argument of the access to logging roads and the
> > belief that tax payers pay for them so why should there be gates and
> cement
> > blocks or rocks blocking access -
> > Typically the roads are private or paid for by stumpage and maintained by
> > logging company - typically the logging company may be liable for what
> > happens on them -
> > And as said -- in Canada the logging roads are often part of FN
> territory -
> > with many restrictions - LIke right now - FN have restrictions up
> > against any outsiders entering their lands due to COVID -
> >
> > I have had to put work plans together to manage public access to areas
> that
> > the public thought they had a right to enter and camp in - or drive
> through
> > - or simply hang around exploring for the day -
> > After plan implemented - we have to go back three days later and replace
> > all the barriers due to destruction completed by those who wanted to
> travel
> > the area - regardless of fish habitat or danger due to potential of dam
> > opening - or active blasting etc
> >
> > If you did not know there was so many pieces to the puzzle - that is
> fine -
> > many dont - no need to be 'hurt' because the pieces of the puzzle have
> been
> > presented -
> >
> > I do annual Safety talks for logging companies - i speak for close to 6
> > hours on a day that starts at 7 am -
> > WCB rep speaks for the other hour -
> > I have investigated numerous incidents -
> > I have read a bazziolon reports of other incidents - on logging roads and
> > countless other terrain -
> > I charge 1000$ for the day of Safety talk - typically anywhere from 50
> to
> > 100 guys & gals in the room
> >
> > I also hosted two seperate safety conferences with budgets >10K for the
> day
> > -
> > 100% supported by community - and free for workers to attend -
> > Safety is 2 things - being prepared for the eventual likely hood of an
> > event and dealing with the event when it happens
> >
> > I begin every talk by asking for the stupid people to raise thier hand -
> no
> > one does (maybe i should have started my response that way ??_ )
> > No one ever raises their hand and i say _ Good I am glad to see that
> > becasue I dont think any company hires stupid people - So I do not want
> to
> > hear foreman or supervisors saying what ever incident we are talking
> about
> > today was just stupid - or you cant fix stupid - because stupid does not
> > work here -
> >
> > I have been doing these talks since 2001
> > and i am not even the smartest log in the wood pile - indeed all my real
> > credentials are is i will stand and deliver for 5-7 hours and still make
> > sense -
> >
> > Enjoy the journey :)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:40 PM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Roger,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the insights but wow that’s a lot of caps key and caffeine.
> >> There are a ton of assumptions (most negative sounding in nature).
> Maybe we
> >> can have a conversation instead of trying to prove how
> wrong/stupid/naive
> >> the rest of us are.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Harry
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:21 PM Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@gmail.com
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear Would be Logging Road Traveler
> >>>
> >>> I spent a number of years as safety manager for a builder of logging
> >>> roads -
> >>> On a logging road - ANY TIME IS LOADED LOGGING TRUCK TIME -
> >>>
> >>> There are some who view these roads as free for all to use any time
> they
> >>> want -
> >>> This is not the case -
> >>> Question # one - are your tires rated for stones and extra rough road -
> >>> are all your joints and steering components greased -
> >>> Question # two if you have a failure of any of items can you get off
> >>> road on your own power - so as not to block road -
> >>> Question # three Who is your travel plan filed with - does cell phone
> >>> work there or do you have a HOT SPOT with text capability -
> >>> Question # Four - You know that AAA or CAA will not come and fetch you
> -
> >>>
> >>> A> In Canada very often the logging road will lead to - or cross an
> >>> Indian Reservation and that First Nation may have jurisdictional sway
> over
> >>> traffic flow and permissions to travel
> >>> B> Nearly every logging road has a sign at the place where the Logging
> >>> Road intersects highway - that sign will delineate behaviors to be
> followed
> >>> on the road - during active haul times -
> >>> ACTIVE HAUL TIMES ARE ANYTIME - even if the sign offers typical times -
> >>> you could meet a truck coming 'DOWN LOADED' at any time - Lets say the
> >>> logging roads active hours are 3 am to 3 pm monday to saturday - you
> >>> arrive at road side at 5 pm saturday evening -
> >>> 1. DO YOU have a radio that can be tuned to frequency used by haulers
> on
> >>> that road?
> >>> 2. DO YOU know for sure that every truck up Empty has Come down loaded
> ?
> >>> 3. Do you have any way to announce your intention to travel up ?
> >>> 4. Are Loaded Trucks your only concern ?
> >>> 5. Do you know that the mechanics and service trucks have all booked
> off
> >>> for the night and are safely off road ?
> >>> 6. DO you know what a turn out on the road is for ?
> >>> 7. DO YOU know if logger's ambulance is not heading out with injured
> >>> workers - they typically DO NOT have sirens -
> >>>
> >>> THERE ARE SEVERAL SECTIONS Around here that are deemed LEFT HAND UP -
> >>> LEFT HAND DOWN - does driver understand fully the consequence of not
> being
> >>> on the proper side of the road??
> >>> Then there is the idea of your own trailer -
> >>> 1. If you have a trailer breakdown along the way does your vehicle have
> >>> the ability to pull trailer off the road ?
> >>> 2. if you are caught in a jackpot - not even your own jackpot - lets
> say
> >>> a logging truck has left the road and you are held up from your desired
> >>> camping spot while they extricate the upset truck - which may involve
> >>> getting a load of heavy equipment (or two) past your rig - can you get
> your
> >>> rig sufficiently off the road -- DO YOU KNOW HOW TO BACK UP YOUR RIG
> ?? DO
> >>> YOU KNOW HOW TO BACK UP YOUR RIG IN THE DARK ? CAN YOU DO A THREE POINT
> >>> REVERSE TURN WITH YOUR RIG ?? -- IF YOU ANSWER no TO ANY OF THESE - you
> >>> should not be on Logging road with a rig -- and preferably you should
> be
> >>> able to answer yes to all three questions - If you are answering no to
> any
> >>> of these three questions you need to practice - Not a Joke !!
> >>>
> >>> More over if you are held up are you or your guests going to be idiots
> >>> demanding that road be cleared to let you get on your way - (real world
> >>> events - that happened to me ) more than once - and once during active
> >>> blasting - had to get local law enforcement involved in that one -
> >>> Along with that police or first responders may not have a clue where
> you
> >>> are or how to get to you if you require rescue (do you have a GPS
> device )
> >>> NOT A phone but a dedicated GPS -
> >>>
> >>> Second to that - what do you do when you reach a rope across road that
> >>> has a sign remarking about active falling - or active blasting -
> >>> DO YOU take rope down and continue because the sign is only to inform
> >>> loggers and you are not a logger ???
> >>> DO YOU Take rope down and leave it on the ground because it is after 3
> PM
> >>> on a Friday - the loggers can put it back when they come to work ?
> >>> Do you know what blaster signals mean ?? do you know how close to the
> >>> back of a logging truck you can travel to be outside the swing zone ?
> >>>
> >>> Sometimes two or three loaded trucks will head down and only the first
> >>> one will call miles on the way down - the first one goes by and the
> haplass
> >>> traveler pulls back onto road only to meet truck #2 head on - and yes
> this
> >>> is a real world event that happened -
> >>>
> >>> One afternoon i was heading down - part way down i had that huge urge
> of
> >>> nature calling right now - in only the way a rough and bouncy logging
> road
> >>> can produce in the late afternoon -
> >>> I stopped my pick up - I had not heard a call out on the radio -- but a
> >>> little voice in my head told me to pull as far to the left as possible
> - so
> >>> before exiting truck i did that - pulled my pick up off into a turn
> out -
> >>> and let nature call - just as I was finishing that 'streaming episode'
> a
> >>> loaded truck down roared past my location - I had no idea they were
> there -
> >>> -
> >>>
> >>> on another occasion I was coming down and met a camper on way up -
> truck
> >>> with camper and loaded with family kids and all - I let them know
> there was
> >>> both active falling and active blasting on going that day - they told
> me
> >>> not to mind about them as they were going up early to get a good spot
> - --
> >>> They had no radio =--- with out telling them i radioed up to road
> channel
> >>> that this ship of sillies was on the way into an active work area --
> >>>
> >>> Use abundant caution my friends when on logging roads - they are called
> >>> logging roads due to the reason for creation - they are not called
> lets go
> >>> camping roads
> >>>
> >>> AND I HAVE not even addressed the multitude of walkers - people on
> bikes
> >>> - people on horses - or joe racing becky on ATV to see who gets to lake
> >>> first -
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:00 AM Harry Hoffman <
> hhoffman@ip-solutions.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences and helpful guidance!
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Harry
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:52 AM Harry Hoffman <
> hhoffman@ip-solutions.net>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Volks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know several of you travel the logging roads for camping/exploring.
> >>>>> Having just done this last week, for my first time, I was wondering
> if
> >>>>> anyone has brought trailers along? The roads are really rough so I
> >>>>> wasn't sure how well a trailer would handle the roads.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Harry
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >>> PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
> >>> http://www.tvthatworks.com
> >>> http://www.tvpowellriver.com
> >>> LinkedIn -
> >>>
> >>> - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed
> work
> >>> at: http://www.prliving.ca/
> >>> View the growing list of video work at:
> >>> http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
> >>> http://vimeo.com/42309497
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> > --
> > roger whittaker 604.414.6266
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
> > http://www.tvthatworks.com
> > http://www.tvpowellriver.com
> > LinkedIn -
> >
> > - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work
> at:
> > http://www.prliving.ca/
> > View the growing list of video work at:
> > http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
> > http://vimeo.com/42309497
> >
> >
> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt
>
>
--
roger whittaker 604.414.6266
----------------------------------------------------------
PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
http://www.tvthatworks.com
http://www.tvpowellriver.com
LinkedIn -
- ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work at:
http://www.prliving.ca/
View the growing list of video work at:
http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
http://vimeo.com/42309497
http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt
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