Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:11:48 -0500
Reply-To: Jeff Palmer <w.jeff.palmer@ICLOUD.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jeff Palmer <w.jeff.palmer@ICLOUD.COM>
Subject: Re: Logging roads and trailers
In-Reply-To: <040BF7F5-5FBF-41DB-AEEF-8234BC1C6A8E@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I surrender, both of you!! Enough already :)
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 21, 2020, at 8:59 PM, OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> There Will Only Ever Be 1 John Prine & invoking Him as an excuse for
>
> Copying & Pasting an EMail Subject Line where a Normal Salutation belongs
>
> is quite the insult to Him,, IMHO ~
>
> ORR~ DeanB
>
>> On 21 Jul , 2020, at 2:09 PM, Roger Whittaker wrote:
>>
>> Dear questioning
>>
>> I was raised by a house ful of John Prine recordings ") RIP J Prine
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:42 AM OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Dear Seemingly UnAble to address People By Name
>>
>> What's Up With That, RW ??
>>
>> ORR ~ DeanB
>>
>>> On 21 Jul , 2020, at 12:43 AM, Roger Whittaker wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Logging adventure folks
>>>
>>> "There are a ton of assumptions (most negative sounding in nature). Maybe
>>> we can have a conversation instead of trying to prove how
>>> wrong/stupid/naive the rest of us are."
>>>
>>> I see no assumptions -- I see a list of questions that anyone attempting to
>>> travel on an INDUSTRIAL ROAD potentially filled with INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH
>>> traffic should ask their self -
>>> i also see a list of stuff that I have encountered while working in that
>>> environment -
>>>
>>> Your original question was about being a newbie on logging roads and how a
>>> trailer would handle -
>>> indeed it is "I know several of you travel the logging roads for
>>> camping/exploring.
>>> *Having just done this last week, for my first time*,"
>>>
>>> I still believe more importantly the question should be how does the
>>> operator handle self and are they prepared for the unpredictability of
>>> the situation they are entering
>>>
>>> You can take the remarks any way you like :)
>>>
>>> Not trying to point out how stupid anyone is -
>>> Caps are for emphasis -
>>> currently in my community there is a raging battle going on between people
>>> who want trails to be walking only and those who utilize mountain bike -
>>> this is just a smaller argument of the access to logging roads and the
>>> belief that tax payers pay for them so why should there be gates and cement
>>> blocks or rocks blocking access -
>>> Typically the roads are private or paid for by stumpage and maintained by
>>> logging company - typically the logging company may be liable for what
>>> happens on them -
>>> And as said -- in Canada the logging roads are often part of FN territory -
>>> with many restrictions - LIke right now - FN have restrictions up
>>> against any outsiders entering their lands due to COVID -
>>>
>>> I have had to put work plans together to manage public access to areas that
>>> the public thought they had a right to enter and camp in - or drive through
>>> - or simply hang around exploring for the day -
>>> After plan implemented - we have to go back three days later and replace
>>> all the barriers due to destruction completed by those who wanted to travel
>>> the area - regardless of fish habitat or danger due to potential of dam
>>> opening - or active blasting etc
>>>
>>> If you did not know there was so many pieces to the puzzle - that is fine -
>>> many dont - no need to be 'hurt' because the pieces of the puzzle have been
>>> presented -
>>>
>>> I do annual Safety talks for logging companies - i speak for close to 6
>>> hours on a day that starts at 7 am -
>>> WCB rep speaks for the other hour -
>>> I have investigated numerous incidents -
>>> I have read a bazziolon reports of other incidents - on logging roads and
>>> countless other terrain -
>>> I charge 1000$ for the day of Safety talk - typically anywhere from 50 to
>>> 100 guys & gals in the room
>>>
>>> I also hosted two seperate safety conferences with budgets >10K for the day
>>> -
>>> 100% supported by community - and free for workers to attend -
>>> Safety is 2 things - being prepared for the eventual likely hood of an
>>> event and dealing with the event when it happens
>>>
>>> I begin every talk by asking for the stupid people to raise thier hand - no
>>> one does (maybe i should have started my response that way ??_ )
>>> No one ever raises their hand and i say _ Good I am glad to see that
>>> becasue I dont think any company hires stupid people - So I do not want to
>>> hear foreman or supervisors saying what ever incident we are talking about
>>> today was just stupid - or you cant fix stupid - because stupid does not
>>> work here -
>>>
>>> I have been doing these talks since 2001
>>> and i am not even the smartest log in the wood pile - indeed all my real
>>> credentials are is i will stand and deliver for 5-7 hours and still make
>>> sense -
>>>
>>> Enjoy the journey :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:40 PM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Roger,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the insights but wow that’s a lot of caps key and caffeine.
>>>> There are a ton of assumptions (most negative sounding in nature). Maybe we
>>>> can have a conversation instead of trying to prove how wrong/stupid/naive
>>>> the rest of us are.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Harry
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:21 PM Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Would be Logging Road Traveler
>>>>>
>>>>> I spent a number of years as safety manager for a builder of logging
>>>>> roads -
>>>>> On a logging road - ANY TIME IS LOADED LOGGING TRUCK TIME -
>>>>>
>>>>> There are some who view these roads as free for all to use any time they
>>>>> want -
>>>>> This is not the case -
>>>>> Question # one - are your tires rated for stones and extra rough road -
>>>>> are all your joints and steering components greased -
>>>>> Question # two if you have a failure of any of items can you get off
>>>>> road on your own power - so as not to block road -
>>>>> Question # three Who is your travel plan filed with - does cell phone
>>>>> work there or do you have a HOT SPOT with text capability -
>>>>> Question # Four - You know that AAA or CAA will not come and fetch you -
>>>>>
>>>>> A> In Canada very often the logging road will lead to - or cross an
>>>>> Indian Reservation and that First Nation may have jurisdictional sway over
>>>>> traffic flow and permissions to travel
>>>>> B> Nearly every logging road has a sign at the place where the Logging
>>>>> Road intersects highway - that sign will delineate behaviors to be followed
>>>>> on the road - during active haul times -
>>>>> ACTIVE HAUL TIMES ARE ANYTIME - even if the sign offers typical times -
>>>>> you could meet a truck coming 'DOWN LOADED' at any time - Lets say the
>>>>> logging roads active hours are 3 am to 3 pm monday to saturday - you
>>>>> arrive at road side at 5 pm saturday evening -
>>>>> 1. DO YOU have a radio that can be tuned to frequency used by haulers on
>>>>> that road?
>>>>> 2. DO YOU know for sure that every truck up Empty has Come down loaded ?
>>>>> 3. Do you have any way to announce your intention to travel up ?
>>>>> 4. Are Loaded Trucks your only concern ?
>>>>> 5. Do you know that the mechanics and service trucks have all booked off
>>>>> for the night and are safely off road ?
>>>>> 6. DO you know what a turn out on the road is for ?
>>>>> 7. DO YOU know if logger's ambulance is not heading out with injured
>>>>> workers - they typically DO NOT have sirens -
>>>>>
>>>>> THERE ARE SEVERAL SECTIONS Around here that are deemed LEFT HAND UP -
>>>>> LEFT HAND DOWN - does driver understand fully the consequence of not being
>>>>> on the proper side of the road??
>>>>> Then there is the idea of your own trailer -
>>>>> 1. If you have a trailer breakdown along the way does your vehicle have
>>>>> the ability to pull trailer off the road ?
>>>>> 2. if you are caught in a jackpot - not even your own jackpot - lets say
>>>>> a logging truck has left the road and you are held up from your desired
>>>>> camping spot while they extricate the upset truck - which may involve
>>>>> getting a load of heavy equipment (or two) past your rig - can you get your
>>>>> rig sufficiently off the road -- DO YOU KNOW HOW TO BACK UP YOUR RIG ?? DO
>>>>> YOU KNOW HOW TO BACK UP YOUR RIG IN THE DARK ? CAN YOU DO A THREE POINT
>>>>> REVERSE TURN WITH YOUR RIG ?? -- IF YOU ANSWER no TO ANY OF THESE - you
>>>>> should not be on Logging road with a rig -- and preferably you should be
>>>>> able to answer yes to all three questions - If you are answering no to any
>>>>> of these three questions you need to practice - Not a Joke !!
>>>>>
>>>>> More over if you are held up are you or your guests going to be idiots
>>>>> demanding that road be cleared to let you get on your way - (real world
>>>>> events - that happened to me ) more than once - and once during active
>>>>> blasting - had to get local law enforcement involved in that one -
>>>>> Along with that police or first responders may not have a clue where you
>>>>> are or how to get to you if you require rescue (do you have a GPS device )
>>>>> NOT A phone but a dedicated GPS -
>>>>>
>>>>> Second to that - what do you do when you reach a rope across road that
>>>>> has a sign remarking about active falling - or active blasting -
>>>>> DO YOU take rope down and continue because the sign is only to inform
>>>>> loggers and you are not a logger ???
>>>>> DO YOU Take rope down and leave it on the ground because it is after 3 PM
>>>>> on a Friday - the loggers can put it back when they come to work ?
>>>>> Do you know what blaster signals mean ?? do you know how close to the
>>>>> back of a logging truck you can travel to be outside the swing zone ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sometimes two or three loaded trucks will head down and only the first
>>>>> one will call miles on the way down - the first one goes by and the haplass
>>>>> traveler pulls back onto road only to meet truck #2 head on - and yes this
>>>>> is a real world event that happened -
>>>>>
>>>>> One afternoon i was heading down - part way down i had that huge urge of
>>>>> nature calling right now - in only the way a rough and bouncy logging road
>>>>> can produce in the late afternoon -
>>>>> I stopped my pick up - I had not heard a call out on the radio -- but a
>>>>> little voice in my head told me to pull as far to the left as possible - so
>>>>> before exiting truck i did that - pulled my pick up off into a turn out -
>>>>> and let nature call - just as I was finishing that 'streaming episode' a
>>>>> loaded truck down roared past my location - I had no idea they were there -
>>>>> -
>>>>>
>>>>> on another occasion I was coming down and met a camper on way up - truck
>>>>> with camper and loaded with family kids and all - I let them know there was
>>>>> both active falling and active blasting on going that day - they told me
>>>>> not to mind about them as they were going up early to get a good spot - --
>>>>> They had no radio =--- with out telling them i radioed up to road channel
>>>>> that this ship of sillies was on the way into an active work area --
>>>>>
>>>>> Use abundant caution my friends when on logging roads - they are called
>>>>> logging roads due to the reason for creation - they are not called lets go
>>>>> camping roads
>>>>>
>>>>> AND I HAVE not even addressed the multitude of walkers - people on bikes
>>>>> - people on horses - or joe racing becky on ATV to see who gets to lake
>>>>> first -
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:00 AM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences and helpful guidance!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Harry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:52 AM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Volks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know several of you travel the logging roads for camping/exploring.
>>>>>>> Having just done this last week, for my first time, I was wondering if
>>>>>>> anyone has brought trailers along? The roads are really rough so I
>>>>>>> wasn't sure how well a trailer would handle the roads.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Harry
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
>>>>> http://www.tvthatworks.com
>>>>> http://www.tvpowellriver.com
>>>>> LinkedIn -
>>>>>
>>>>> - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work
>>>>> at: http://www.prliving.ca/
>>>>> View the growing list of video work at:
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
>>>>> http://vimeo.com/42309497
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
>>> http://www.tvthatworks.com
>>> http://www.tvpowellriver.com
>>> LinkedIn -
>>>
>>> - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work at:
>>> http://www.prliving.ca/
>>> View the growing list of video work at:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
>>> http://vimeo.com/42309497
>>>
>>> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
>> http://www.tvthatworks.com
>> http://www.tvpowellriver.com
>> LinkedIn -
>> ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/
>> Explore printed work at: http://www.prliving.ca/
>> View the growing list of video work at:
>> http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
>> http://vimeo.com/42309497
>> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt