Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:24:35 -0700
Reply-To: Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Melted ground wire
In-Reply-To: <CAB2RwfhWhQGw4a8Di6EpqbD-CiE=m5ka8XDKNiHvUgyEv=dupg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
thank you Neil,
*Did a wire come loose from a relay unrelated to the headlight circuits and
upgrade parts? *
- No, no loose wire on any relay.
*Was this the cause of the short or a result of another short? i.e. did
something else go haywire and cause the 53 relay ground to heat up then
short out to a neighbouring relay pin?*
- No, no other short, nothing that I can see after close inspection, the
relay looks fine, no burning or melting traces but I am not sure about the
internal.
*Bentley 88/89 Vanagon wiring diagrams show the stock headlight fuses at 10
Amp each. There were 20 Amp fuses in those positions now replaced with 15
Amp fuses?*
- Thanks a lot here, Yes I replaced them with 20A but I will put 10A on
fuses 20,21,9,10 as per Bentley but Jay Browns recommends 20A, I will pass
this and go back to 10A.
*I'd be curious if the relay ground wire touched the 87/30 wires or
positive wire to relay coil (likely 86).*
- Yes, it's the case here. The ground wire gets hot, melts the plastic
sleeve, touches the 86 (+) wire and short everything. The 53 relays are
coming soon from GoWesty.
thanks again,
dan
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 11:42 AM Neil N <musomuso@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wires are labelled with different temp ratings. I'm not certain if
> those ratings apply *only* to ambient temps around the wire and how
> they might affect the wire casing but i do know that the real issue
> with a dead short on an UN-fused wire isn't about wire gauge, per se,
> it's about the temp, and rate, at which the casing melts off. e.g. in
> a situation where that UN-fused wire suffers a dead short, if the
> casing melts off quickly, the exposed wire strands can get red hot an
> it can take some time before they actually melt and break the circuit.
>
> I'm not overly familiar with the later (1988 ?) Vanagon fuse/relay
> arrangement.
>
> Did a wire come loose from a relay unrelated to the headlight circuits
> and upgrade parts? Was this the cause of the short or a result of
> another short? i.e. did something else go haywire and cause the 53
> relay ground to heat up then short out to a neighbouring relay pin?
>
> I assume you meant "1988 Carat". Bentley 88/89 Vanagon wiring diagrams
> show the stock headlight fuses at 10 Amp each. There were 20 Amp fuses
> in those positions now replaced with 15 Amp fuses?
>
> I'd be curious if the relay ground wire touched the 87/30 wires or
> positive wire to relay coil (likely 86). But, that type of relay is
> cheap and depending on its' purpose, it could be replaced with a
> generic FLAPS sourced 4 or even 5 pin "bosch" type relay.
>
> Neil.
>
>
>
> On 9/30/20, Dan N <dn92610@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > My daughter drove her 1998 Carat (stock) with high beams ON and suddenly
> > smoke came out under the dash, engine died, she pulled over, shut the
> > engine, waited a bit and restarted the van and the same thing happened
> > again, got it towed to me.
> > The van has Jay Brown's headlight relay kit but uses 55/80W bulbs 6 years
> > ago and working fine till now. The fuses 20,21(low beam) are OK, the
> casing
> > of the fuses 9,10(high beam) were melted but the fuses are not blown. In
> > the back of the fuses panel there is a gray #53 relay and the ground (-)
> > wire that goes to the ground tree was melted and touched the positive (+)
> > wire on the same relay.
> > I replaced the 4 fuses (20,21,9,10) with 15A fuses instead of 20A,
> repaired
> > the positive (+) wire, replaced the ground (-) wire with 14 gauge instead
> > of 16 gauge and installed an inline 10A fuse on it. I ordered a new #53
> > relay (not here yet) just in case. All working well now.
> >
> > Sorry for the long description but I try to find out why this could
> > happen... quite scary and I wonder how to prevent this.
> >
> > Thank you for any ideas.
> >
> > dan
> >
>
>
> --
> Neil n
>
> VE7TBN
>
> 1988 Westy 50º ABA swap: https://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt
>
> 1981 Westy 15º ABA swap: https://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8
>
> VAG Gas Engine Swap Group <http://tinyurl.com/khalbay>
>
| 
