Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 06:10:16 -0800
Reply-To: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Bogus engineering
In-Reply-To: <0CEE58E2-E3D1-455B-BA81-2E4BA6C7041E@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Well, as I've said before, I'm certainly not an expert, and particularly
I'm no engineer. My first experience with a Vanagon as an owner resulted
in my quickly deciding that all the good that I like, which is mainly the
ability to get into the back country readily (wheel clearance, size) and
camp (camper set up) was offset by the mechanical reliability and
maintenance concerns, and I'm still troubled by those. But I've adapted
somewhat, though I regularly consider getting a more reliable version --
but it wouldn't be an old "bus" would it? It would be a Ford or
something. Little romance there.
The Vanagon's troubles that are most often cited result from the
technological equivalent of a principle that is well understood in the
theory of evolution. Descendent limitations result from antecedent
properties. The VW engineers were working with a vehicle that they were
constrained by corporate concerns to modify rather than replace. I really
doubt that many of the things that puzzle and frustrate us would have been
a part of an original design.
All that said, I probably am too incompetent and getting too old to
continue to deal with the unreliability, much of which is also just a
product of the age of the vehicle -- something I can personally relate to!
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 10:23 PM OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
> That which They Did Do Right, whether consciously or not, was
> create a vehicle that has
>
> a bunch of attributes that Those of Us Who Love Them, Love & They made
> them Simple enough
>
> that Those of Us Who Love Them are able to keep Them Functioning the way
> that We Love ~
>
> I can’t say that there is really anything Special about the
> “German” Engineering that went
>
> into Them but that being said I think there are a few attributes that make
> them Special for Me >
>
> Ground Clearance, Turning Radius & Interior Space all make for a Go Almost
> Anywhere Compact
>
> Home On Wheels ~
>
>
> ORR ~ DeanB
>
>
> > On 5 Feb , 2021, at 8:07 AM, Larry Alofs <lalofs@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >
> > Of course they did many things right in the overall design of the
> Vanagon;
> > otherwise we would not be so devoted to them. However,anyone who has
> > fooled around with these vehicles for 20 years or so has sometimes asked
> > themselves "What were they thinking?"
> > A few things come to mind easily, the most serious in my mind being the
> > idea that you could just wrap a cooling jacket around an air cooled
> > engine. Then we have an oddly shaped fuel tank with about 10 openings,
> > many electrical and ground connections placed where they are exposed to
> > leaks from the corner of the windshield, a byzantine and difficult to
> bleed
> > cooling system with its "tower" and unique and troublesome pressure cap,
> > etc.
> > Of course hindsight is always easier, and as someone already said, many
> > of these and other problems resulted from cost driven compromises.
> > But...we cannot assume that any given "feature" is present just because
> the
> > VW engineers were more wise and knowing than us.
> >
> > Larry A.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 8:00 PM OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> RK
> >>
> >> Just to clarify > My Bogus response was not pointed @ VW
> >> Engineering,,
> >>
> >> It was an answer to David McNeelys question >
> >>
> >>> “is my thinking that the VW engineers might know more than the rest of
> >> us completely bogus?”
> >>
> >> & I purposely left out the word “completely” because He used the word
> >> “might”
> >>
> >> & I was not trying to imply that We might know more than the VW
> Engineers ~
> >>
> >> But Indeed Some Of Us Actually Just Might ~
> >>
> >> Also, I DanNs answer was well said ~
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 3 Feb , 2021, at 4:55 PM, Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> In my opinion, the original Vanagon engineers did FAR more right than
> >> they did wrong. It's like any occupation...you make mistakes, you
> learn,
> >> you correct. That is why on the bottom right corner of every
> engineering
> >> drawing or document on the planet....you will see a Block titled as
> "REV".
> >> It starts out, once released, as "A". Then it proceeds to revision "B".
> >> And so on. I have seen it go to multiple letters.
> >>>
> >>> Yes...I am an engineer. Now retired.
> >>>
> >>> Of course, the other saying "Hindsight is 20/20" is also very valid.
> >> Just the way it goes. Hence, our forum here.
> >>>
> >>> But, do you want to drive a Model T? Or fly in a DC-3? It's all about
> >> progress. One learns far more from their mistakes than from their
> >> successes. Experience builds.
> >>> Those Vanagon Engineers did a pretty cool job. In my opinion, with all
> >> the constraints they had to deal with. Most of the time, they were
> >> correct. Not always though. And so, we all slug along.
> >>>
> >>> Rich
> >>> San Diego
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tuesday, February 2, 2021, 9:50:47 PM PST, OlRivrRat <
> >> olrivrrat@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You asked the ? >
> >>>
> >>> “is my thinking that the VW engineers might know more than the rest of
> >> us completely bogus?”
> >>>
> >>> I Answered > Bogus ~
> >>>
> >>>> On 2 Feb , 2021, at 10:19 PM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hmmm.... . Meaning? You seem pretty sure of SOMETHING. What are you
> >>>> saying is bogus?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 9:05 PM OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Bogus !!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 1 Feb , 2021, at 12:10 PM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM
> >
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Am I stupid, or is my thinking that the VW engineers might know more
> >> than
> >>>>>> the rest of us completely bogus?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
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