Date:         Mon, 8 Feb 2021 18:20:40 -0500
Reply-To:     Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Westy Lean
In-Reply-To:  <EEA1796F-AC88-4F59-A054-5DF6B26BBD46@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi David, 

Here is a thread I saved from some time ago with some info.  But there is even more out there.

Eric 
From Dennis,


Sorry about the delay getting back to you.

Left side sag can be a combination of both springs. For some reason the 85's seem to suffer or it is the most obvious on these. Having a scale set it is really interesting how well weight is actually distributed.

What you need to do is measure the fender lip to axle center distances. Then you will see if you have a true corner sag or a side to side sag. it is common for some springs to take "set" If this is the case a fix would be to swap the springs left-right or shim to adjust. If going the shim route you need to consider that as you lift a corner you will take weight off 2 wheels and transfer that weight to the wheel diagonally opposite the one you lifted. There is a lot of dynamics. A really good suspension shop should have scales. Scales are helpful to get this right.


Dennis



________________________________
From: Jeff Palmer <w.jeff.palmer@icloud.com <mailto:w.jeff.palmer@icloud.com>>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 12:16 AM
To: Dennis Haynes
Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Subject: Re: 85 Westfalia front springs

Found my original receipt from 2005!  Part number 251411105A952 which is still on their site as stock replacement including camper.
Jeff

> On Jul 15, 2018, at 10:51 PM, Jeff Palmer <w.jeff.palmer@icloud.com <mailto:w.jeff.palmer@icloud.com>> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Dennis.  I replaced all four of them with Bus Depot springs about 10 years ago.  I thought there were more to choose from rather than just one type.  I just got back from a big trip today and had noticed some sagging on the driver’s side during the trip, but no issues with performance.  I know it’s normal for a bit of leaning on the driver’s side, and i was loaded heavier than usual with full cupboards, fridge, water tank etc so chalked it up to that and uneven ground.  But back at home in my driveway the lean looks more noticeable.
> 
> Is there anything else it could be?
> 
> Thanks
> Jeff
> 
>> On Jul 15, 2018, at 10:24 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com <mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> The ETKA did list different springs for various models indicated by paint marks. For the most part the aftermarket sells springs based on height or lift and usually they are replaced in sets of 4. Why do you think you need new ones? These vans tend to ride high in the front. The original rears do need to be checked for condition of the thin tails. These ends tend to rust and then break leaving a chance for a spring to work out.
>> 
>> Dennis
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com <mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>] On Behalf Of Jeff Palmer
>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2018 7:39 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Subject: 85 Westfalia front springs
>> 
>> Hi everyone. I need new front springs for an 85 Westfalia. Are they the same as every other year? For some reason I thought they were unique? Stock wheels and tires.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Jeff
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone


> On Feb 8, 2021, at 6:03 PM, Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> It might be under suspension.
> 
> Eric 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 8, 2021, at 3:30 PM, David Boan <dboan@outlook.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Eric.  I did a search on "lean" and was surprised to not find a lot, but will dig deeper.
>> 
>> Dave B 
>> From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net <mailto:ericcaron96@comcast.net>>
>> Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 2:41 PM
>> To: David Boan <dboan@OUTLOOK.COM <mailto:dboan@OUTLOOK.COM>>
>> Cc: Vanagon List <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>>
>> Subject: Re: Westy Lean
>> 
>> Hi David,
>> 
>>        I think there are some very detailed emails about this in the archives. 
>> 
>> Dennis Haynes has a set of scales and wrote up the impact of the weights and positions. 
>> 
>> Did you measure before adding the weight?
>> 
>> Changing the shims on one corner has a lot of effects around the van. 

>> 
>> Still, one simple and adjustable solution is to add the air bags inside the rear springs.  I learned about this when Frank Condelli carried a motorcycle on the back of his bus.  To get the weight back on his front wheels he used the air bags. 
>> 
>> I have a set and keep them at minimal inflation as the van has been adjusted.  But they are ready for use if needed.
>> 
>> 
>> This is likely not a great solution but it allows for exact correction of the lean and if needed compensates for weight in the rear. 

>> 
>> I’d recommend reading the posts that lay out the options and effects of correcting the lean. 
>> 
>> Eric Caron 
>> 85 GL Auto 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 8, 2021, at 1:35 PM, David Boan <dboan@OUTLOOK.COM <mailto:dboan@OUTLOOK.COM>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Vanagon-Types
>>> 
>>> In the last year I added a spare tire mount to the driver side of the rear bumper of my 85 Westy and upgraded my house battery to an AGM, which is heavier than the previous lead acid battery and it also sits on the driver side.  Measured at the rear wheels, the driver side is 5/8" lower than the right side, measured empty and no driver, except for a full tank of gas.  In retrospect, I should have put the spare tire on the other side.  It is the Westy World heavy-duty bumper and spare tire rack, and they are rather heavy.  I am thinking of moving the spare tire mount to the right side to help counter the lean.  Because the spare rides on the bumper I think the impact of the weight is multiplied by the leverage created by sitting beyond the axle, so moving it would seem to have an impact.  I do not know the actual weight of the spare tire mount.
>>> 
>>> So, two questions for the wisdom of the group.  Does a difference of 5/8" seem significant and worth trying to correct?  The only comment I found in the archives or on Samba was that it could matter in extreme conditions, but what about otherwise?  I see a lot of comments about lean being common, bnut how much lean is common?  And does my logic about moving the spare seem reasonable?  Also, I have the GoWesty progressive springs in the rear, and will have them in the front when I get to it (front springs are still original).
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> 
>>> Dave B.
>>> Boise