Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2021 11:18:13 -0700
Reply-To: Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA>
Subject: Re: Spare tire location
In-Reply-To: <6AA2CEF9-F40E-43A2-B872-BB3A916C3962@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
That’s what I’ve been trying to say.
Other source of these pics and Vw publications showing crash structure is here
http://www.vwsyncro.eu
Stacy’s response with Wikipedia ref is still not Vw document.
And for crying out loud, if it was that important Vw would assuredly, warn owners of its importance in the owners manual. Litigation pressures would demand that .
Alistair
> On Apr 3, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Ben T <syncro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There is a publication by VW showing the crash structure for the T3. It’s a series of physical cutaways of a Vanagon where the framing is exposed and color coded to identify each part. Not at any point does VW include the spare in that crash structure. As Richard has pointed out, the placement of the spare tire is just an incidental benefit. For Syncro 16” Doka did not come with a spare tire in the clamshell. It’s stuffed under the rear bench. Van versions came with a swingaway rear carrier for the spare straight from the factory.
>
> Those of you who are in the Facebook group called Vanagon Cafe, search under the words “crash structure” to view the aforementioned pages. Unfortunately, you have to be a member to view because it’s a ‘private group’. FB restricts who is able to view contents. I’m sure those same documents are available in other archives in existence way before social media. I just don’t have a link handy to give you.
>
>
> BenT
>
>
>> On Apr 3, 2021, at 10:57 AM, Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> As a Mechanical Design Engineer, I can tell you most assuredly that there were no computers or simulations strong enough to calculate the importance of the spare tire location chosen. Back in the 1980's. Or even today. It would be easier to put a man on the Moon.
>>
>> The design engineers put the spare tire where it is for convenience. Any extra crash protection was a bonus. I mean, there are only so many places to put a spare tire. But our common sense tells us that having that buffer underneath to strengthen things is a good thing. Not a requirement though. A million different variables, impossible to calculate or design around.
>>
>> For crash protection, the Vanagon designers made a pretty stout front end. You have all seen the crash videos; even Vanagon versus Volvo.
>> So, IMHO a spare on the rear is OK. Just expensive; some negative nominal weight distribution. Looks rugged though, and there is appeal in that. Yeah, just way too expensive. Definitely would be a hassle in my single wide garage, trying to load cargo in the back the night before a trip.
>>
>> On Saturday, April 3, 2021, 10:36:59 AM PDT, David McNeely <davmcneely40@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone looked at VW engineering recods for notes on this?
>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 9:57 AM Richard Smith (Smirby) <smirby@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This has been debated at great length in TheSamba. It goes back and forth.
>>>
>>> The strongest evidence for the tire being incidental to crash worthiness
>>> is that some Vanagon’s (e.g., synchro) did not - apparently - come with a
>>> spare tire there.
>>>
>>> I think the lack of ANY reference to the tire being in place and that
>>> being part of the safety design of the van is also indirect evidence that
>>> suggests VW was not relying on this for the safety of the occupants. By the
>>> 1990s, I would think such notifications would be prominent in the owners
>>> manual.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, if people feel safer knowing that there is a spare tire
>>> there, then I think we should leave them be. Live and let live, I say. If
>>> someone decided to cut the seatbelts out of their van, I might want to make
>>> a comment, but removing the spare tire? None of my business, I say.
>>>
>>> …r
>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 3, 2021, at 9:49 AM, Gene P <olgreywoof@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Again,, is there anything to this? Not an engineer, but if I run
>>> head-on into something, there’s a quarter acre of glass two feet in front
>>> of my face and a spare tire somewhere down underneath my feet. How does
>>> that tire protect me from anything? The seat belt keeps my butt in the
>>> seat instead of being launched out into traffic.
>>>>
>>>> Also, were the spare tires in the bottom of trunks or underneath truck
>>> beds there to protect us from backing into something? I think the spare in
>>> our vans is where it is because the space was available.
>>>>
>>>> My worn penny,
>>>> gp
>>>>
>>>> From: Stacy Schneider
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 3, 2021 8:43 AM
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: Spare tire location
>>>>
>>>> Do we need to remind people that part of the crash worthiness of
>>>> these vehicles is the spare tire?
>>>> If you’re going to take the spare out you may as well not wear a
>>>> seat belt either.
>>>> Both of these item are an engineered safety item of the van.
>>>>
>>>> My .02
>>>> Stacy
>>>
>>
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