Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 22:36:25 -0400
Reply-To: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Aluminum coolant tanks. Why?
In-Reply-To: <CAK9Aa+mOYaa9fnqvYTsZnPfp-_21RHNhBkR1UV9EW_aapFiTqA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I love the trip report.
I can picture that little one rolling out the back. Sorry, but I must admit to a chuckle!
eRic
> On Jul 26, 2021, at 2:09 PM, Bruce Todd <beeceetee@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> To reiterate Dennis’ note(s), I had replaced a leaking plastic tank with
> supposedly a better quality tank (there was a cheaper option!) only to have
> many cracks show up a year later. I realized after that discovery nothing
> was bullet proof.
>
> I think I have reached the point where all plastic has now been replaced on
> the cooling system including both front and rear heater valves. Hoses are
> pretty much fully replaced over the past 4 years with minimal mileage -
> summer driving only so I am hoping some problem free travels.
>
> Current trip report - day 3 on South Pender Island. Excellent weather, dry
> with no dew. Very nice secluded camp site. Used the rear add a room for
> the first time and like it very much - other than my youngest rolled off
> the back hatch early this morning and needed a hand back up. She moves
> around a lot in her sleep. Had a evening visit from a deer eating low
> hanging branches from a cedar which was a treat to watch.
>
> So far so good - big Island bound tomorrow.
>
> Bruce
>
> On Sunday, July 25, 2021, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You asked “Why not take the cost of the tank and use it to replace the
>> coolant, tank, cap and sensor every few years”?
>>
>> Because I have had many that failed on or shortly after install.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>> From: gary hradek <hradek@yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2021 11:31 AM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM; Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Aluminum coolant tanks. Why?
>>
>> Dennis,
>> I think we are in agreement about the general but not the
>> specific. There is a plastic part that mounts in the fire wall where the
>> gas passes from the tank to the engine, fuel line firewall adapter that is
>> sold by vanagon cafe. If anyone out there still has not replaced that
>> plastic one with one of these, now is the time to consider that. The
>> advantages of the metal one over the plastic one is indisputable.
>> Failure here is usually a smell that should not be ignored and little
>> weight is added.
>> Replacing the fuel tank crossover pipe from plastic to metal was less
>> important to me. I stuck with the plastic here because failure her is less
>> of an issue and fuel line and grommets need to be replaced here.
>> Now when it comes with the metal tank. This things is heavy,
>> expensive and makes it more difficult to see the coolant. The blue caps
>> and the plastic tanks are light weight and inexpensive and easy to replace
>> when you do a coolant change. Why not take the cost of the tank and use it
>> to replace the coolant, tank, cap and sensor every few years?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, July 25, 2021, 07:15:02 AM PDT, Dennis Haynes <
>> d23haynes57@hotmail.com<mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I think a large majority of us on this list have developed a large sense
>> of self sufficiency. If not a mechanic-technician before we have become one
>> and maybe even part engineer. We have also developed intermittent
>> relationships with these vehicles. Thus we can make better choices what is
>> needed including deferring maintenance and being value conscious.
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of my customers are not that savvy, that is why they come to me. Few
>> understand that a red light really means stop now! They will drive the last
>> few home or to the next exit without oil pressure, coolant, or the water
>> pump belt. Many have acquired a Vanagon as their first VW experience. Parts
>> recommendations and upgrades need to shoot towards Toyota like reliability,
>> eliminate the cause of failure before it happens.
>>
>>
>>
>> For the Waterboxer there is little tolerance for coolant system failures.
>> Sure it can take some extra heat if all is well but at significant speed
>> and load any sudden loss of coolant will result in some damage. The damage
>> may be minor and maybe not even noticeable at the time but be assured a
>> trauma has occurred and often the results will end a vacation.
>>
>> Think of what happens to a pot on the stove when the water is cooked out.
>> That happens inside your engine along parts changing shape. The quality of
>> the both the tanks and caps are now at a point of not being trusted.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>> From: gary hradek <hradek@yahoo.com<mailto:hradek@yahoo.com>>
>> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 7:06 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM<mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>; Dennis
>> Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com<mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com>>
>> Subject: Re: Aluminum coolant tanks. Why?
>>
>>
>>
>> Dennis,
>>
>> I get your point. Plastic is cheap. But I think the
>> coolant needs of the boxer engine is overstated. If you maintain the
>> coolant system of the vanagon you have very few problems. It is also key
>> that when you do have problems you stop driving. I have an 87 westy and I
>> change out half the coolant every 2 years. I have changed out the plastic
>> coolant tanks two times not because they failed but because they had cracks
>> that looked like they might fail. As far as fan failure, you can hear and
>> see that. Not sure what you mean about cap failure. Overflow tank
>> should give you some clue there and there are plenty of hose fitting that
>> can leak to release pressure.
>>
>> I love that Go Westy offers some great ideas, just not sold on this one.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, July 23, 2021, 03:15:20 PM PDT, Dennis Haynes <
>> d23haynes57@hotmail.com<mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The aluminum coolant tanks were developed in response to the high failure
>> rate of the original tank. These failures were a result of the design and
>> materials used. The cap itself is also a high failure item. The problem is
>> worse now as the tanks available are of even poorer material. Adding to
>> this tank failure can also caused by other system issues such as combustion
>> gasses getting into the system or other failures including fan not
>> functioning. In these events undiagnosed failures often result in ear
>> immediate failure of the tank or cap. The metal based tanks are much more
>> tolerant and so is the pressure cap. In addition the standard design cap
>> used with these tanks besides being robust and tolerant are easily
>> inspected and replaced. They also can release pressure and suck back more
>> reliably, with more capacity and not get damaged by a steam blast. The
>> standardized cap design also allows for easier attachment of pressure
>> testers and even pressurized filling equipment.
>>
>>
>>
>> The real consideration is reliability and saving an engine. For all the
>> bad press the Waterboxer gets the reality is that while there are some
>> weaknesses they really never wear out and most all failures are the result
>> of some fluid system failure, coolant, oil, or fuel. While you may need to
>> deal with outer head gaskets, a burned valve, or maybe even rings, if you
>> never loose the coolant, oil pressure or lean-flood the cylinders Upgrading
>> this tank with fuel you will never loose one of these engines. Upgrading
>> this tank eliminates one more engine killer. I do acknowledge that these
>> tanks are not perfect. The hose nipples don't quit fit the hose and clamp
>> design, on one the coolant sensor is satisfied as long coolant is still
>> spraying on it, and I don’t think they separate the dirt and debris out
>> like the original. But getting the better cap and eliminating the sudden
>> failure failures is worth the cost.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com<mailto:
>> vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>> On Behalf Of gary hradek
>>
>> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 11:18 AM
>>
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM<mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>
>> Subject: Aluminum coolant tanks
>>
>>
>>
>> If the plastic ones are still available why would anyone want the weight
>> of an Aluminum coolant tanks at nearly 10x the cost?
>>
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