Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 14:18:00 -0700
Reply-To: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Air Conditioning
In-Reply-To: <4E309557-8465-4E3D-AB29-76A1147B0E0B@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Redid my fuel lines AND the "fire starter" connection through the bulkhead
in front of the engine compartment in 2008 and again last year.
I'm not putting a highly flammable gas into the AC system, where it
undergoes compression and evaporation repeatedly. I have had AC leaks on
more than one vehicle over the span of my driving time. I had my AC
system converted to R134a to protect the ozone layer. I'm not going
backwards on that.
On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 2:04 PM Chris S <szpejankowski@gmail.com> wrote:
> They burn up from leaking fuel lines. You should check yours.
>
> And relax.
>
> Chris.
>
> Wysłane z iPhone'a
>
> > Wiadomość napisana przez Steve Bonde <seb007@live.com> w dniu 9/27/21,
> o godz. 10:52:
> >
> > Wow!!!
> >
> > If this stupidity is the norm for this group, please remove me from this
> list!
> >
> > Propane isn’t being compressed and uncompressed within a system of the
> vehicle. It simply flows and is contained in a DOT approved container.
> >
> > No wonder so many Vanagons burn up.
> >
> > I’m out.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Sep 27, 2021, at 8:40 AM, Chris S <szpejankowski@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> We already have a highly combustible substance in our engine
> compartment running through aged hoses. It’s gasoline. Unlike gasoline
> propane does not drip or pool. It has to be in just the right ratio with
> oxygen to combust. Besides, what kind of unlikely catastrophic AC failure
> would it take?
> >>
> >> That reminds me, time refill my propane take for winter so I can run my
> Propex heater.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Wysłane z iPhone'a
> >>
> >>>> Wiadomość napisana przez Steve Bonde <seb007@live.com> w dniu
> 9/27/21, o godz. 10:20:
> >>>
> >>> Please read the MSDS sheet for this compound. CAS is the chemical
> abstracts number. We chemists check these things before we screw things up
> for ourselves and our passengers. I don’t have any cases but putting
> something classified as extremely flammable in my AC system is not a risk I
> would take.
> >>>
> >>> If you put this “extremely flammable” compound in your AC system, you
> do so at your own peril.
> >>>
> >>>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airgas.com%2Fmsds%2F001090.pdf&data=04%7C01%7C%7C846bb6e3c6cd4786146a08d981c4cc50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637683504502482507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Ni2uPZqTxULUoVLcTk%2BBe4kIKMyK94jYZupi%2F%2BwA0cA%3D&reserved=0
> >>>
> >>> I know I won’t and this is very bad advice.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 6:52 AM, John Rodgers <jrodgers113@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I know of no one, no example, of anyone having a flame or fire problem
> with using the CAS 75/HFC152a. If you know of any ACTUAL l cases I
> certainly would like to know, and read the case history about it.
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 7:45 AM John Rodgers <jrodgers113@gmail.com
> <mailto:jrodgers113@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>> Those things were replaced but not the hoses.
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 7:38 AM Steve Bonde <seb007@live.com<mailto:
> seb007@live.com>> wrote:
> >>> You may want to be careful with this Freon (152a). While it’s
> considered a substitute for R 12, it is flammable where 134a is not.
> >>>
> >>> Molecule size isn’t really the issue. The tetrafluoroethane used in
> 134a is much larger than the difluoromethane you’re suggesting without the
> flammability.
> >>>
> >>> R 401a is a mixture of 152a and 124, and has a much lower flammability.
> >>>
> >>> When you made the change, did you replace the oil, filter, and drier
> as well? That was the problem with my pickup.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>>> On Sep 26, 2021, at 9:48 PM, John Rodgers <jrodgers113@gmail.com
> <mailto:jrodgers113@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The summer is most gone and so is the need for AC but it sure was
> nice to
> >>>> have earlier. Back when I had my '88 van, I dutifully switched my
> system
> >>>> over to R-134a because R12 was going out and what little was
> available was
> >>>> astronomical in cosy. I changed the service fittings, purged the
> system,
> >>>> then vacuumed the system, and added the appropriate amount of 134a.
> This
> >>>> was in spring. By mid summer the refrigerant pressure had dropped and
> was
> >>>> no longer cooling properly. I added 134a and brought it back up to
> speed.
> >>>> By fall of the first year the pressure was back down. This was a
> >>>> puzzlement. there was no sign of leakage any where. I didn't refill
> it as
> >>>> cooler weather had set in but I knew the problem had to be solved by
> spring
> >>>> when I had to service it again.
> >>>>
> >>>> During the winter I stumbled across a discussion about molecule size
> of
> >>>> various refrigerants and how their sized was affected by hose design.
> It
> >>>> would seem that 134a has much smaller molecule size than R12, and
> >>>> consequently the stuff over time would leak right through the old
> original
> >>>> hoses. And the original hoses is what I had. While pondering this
> >>>> situation I stumbled on a video of Dustaway keyboard and computer
> cleaner
> >>>> being used as a refrigerant to service the AC SYSTEM. Supposedly the
> specs
> >>>> were similar to R-12 at least in molecule size so there should be only
> >>>> minimum leakage. It works great as a refrigerant cooling with the
> best of
> >>>> them. and I haven't changed or added to the system for a couple of
> years.
> >>>> You can find videos on Youtube about this. And if you decided to try
> it,
> >>>> make sure your can says on it somewhere CAS 75-37-6
>
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