Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2021 16:56:44 -0700
Reply-To: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Any advise on timing of an oil change before or after winter
storage
In-Reply-To: <62EC4A11-B644-406B-B7CD-402EA4D297A6@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Ha, Ha. Sitting in the shop for a long time.
So far as acidic oil, hmmm..... . I do have an undergrad degree in
chemistry and biology, plus a doctorate in ecology with some grad level
chemistry courses.
Most of you probably know that acidity and basicity are (in simplistic
terms) relating to the hydrogen ion concentration of a water solution.
They are quantified as pH (original term, power of hydrogen). Water
molecules dissociate, and the relative concentration of hydrogen ion and
hydroxide ion (H+ and OH-) constitute acidity and basicity (again,
simplistic terms). The two concentrations are related. When one is high
the other is low, and vice versa, except in pure water both are equal. So,
knowing one, one knows the other, and pH is satisfactory for expressing
either acidity or basicity. It is defined as the -log (base 10) of the
hydrogen ion concentration. In pure water, the dissociation of the water
molecules yields a pH of 7.00..................., because 1x10 to the -1
molecules are dissociated. Acid solutions have a pH less than 7 (the
stronger or more concentrated, the lower the pH), basic solutions have a pH
greater than 7 (again, stronger or more concentrated, the higher the pH).
Keep in mind, these are water solutions, not oil.
All this is a long way of saying that to describe a substance other than
water or a solution of something in water as acidic or basic is chemical
non-sense. Oil simply cannot be acidic, and if one placed a pH probe in
oil, the probe would have nothing to measure. If water is present in the
oil system of a vehicle, it should seek the lowest point in the system, and
not be dissolved into the oil, since the two things are not soluble one in
the other. Water IS a product of combustion, but should not contaminate
the oil system unless there is leak of some kind between the combustion
system and the oil system. I believe that lowest point should be the sump,
or oil pan.
That said, if water from the cooling system contaminates the oil system, an
emulsion (not a solution) can form, and the coolant can take on a
mayonnaise like consistency. I have seen this, though not in a modern
vehicle, rather way back in the fifties. I believe it was the result of a
head gasket leak. However, I have not seen the oil take on this quality.
Others may have.
If this bit of pedantic comment is helpful to anyone, good. If not, ignore
it. Exactly what relevance it might have to long term storage of a
vehicle, I do not know.
mcneely
On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 1:39 PM OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
> JF,, Why were You sitting in a shop for many years ~~
>
> > On 8 Oct , 2021, at 6:06 PM, Jim. Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >
> > I don't know. i've opened up engines after sitting in a shop for many
> many
> > years and have never seen water (or any other) contamination at least
> that
> > was visible. My Jettas were "never" (my quotes because no VW ever held
> oil
> > for that long) supposed to undergo transmission oil or transmission
> fluid
> > changes.
> >
> > The reason I would change oil in an engine is if I did not know what I
> was
> > working with, no matter what the circumstances.
> >
> > Does anyone know for sure about oil being hygroscopic? About it turning
> > acidic? And I am talking about for certain, as in information from a
> > chemist.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 11:31 AM Dan N <dn92610@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I agree.. some people change the oil twice... once before storage and
> once
> >> after storage... Car collectors do it on a strict time schedule because
> of
> >> the contamination factors... storage or not driving it or not.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:22 AM Cary Chiang <ccchiang1@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've read a few articles about how professionals and car collectors
> >>> prepare vehicles for long term storage, and their rule was to always
> >>> replace fuel and oil with fresh/clean fluids before storage. I believe
> >> they
> >>> stated that the contaminants in used oil, combined with the moisture
> from
> >>> combustion and from the humidity that Dan mentioned, causes the oil to
> >>> become slightly acidic. No need to leave that sitting in your engine
> all
> >>> winter!
> >>> Cary
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Oct 8, 2021, 10:30 AM Dan N <dn92610@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I'd think wait till the Spring and change oil before you resume the
> >>>> driving. Fresh oil sitting in the engine during the winter months will
> >>>> collect moisture due to humidity.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 7:22 AM Jack R <jack007@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Any advise on timing of an oil change before or after winter storage?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does it make any difference as to when I do my oil change on my 2.1L
> >>>> Westy?
> >>>>> I'm due for one based on time/mileage, but wondered if I should wait
> >>>> until
> >>>>> Spring when I start driving again or should it be completed before I
> >>>> store
> >>>>> it in my insulated garage for the winter?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jack R.
> >>>>> 84 Westy, with 2.1L from 91 syncro
> >>>>> N. of Detroit
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
| 
