Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 21:10:05 -0400
Reply-To: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Key in power - no start situation
In-Reply-To: <CAFnDXk3aD1d_EPGVbbzWprBnLs=QNMqRAYF-X+hZO+LfFrAMxw@mail.gmail.com>
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Yup, I have Karl’s adaptor and use that starter in my automatic. At the time total cost was about $100.00 starter from Amazon.
It is working great.
Eric Caron
> On Nov 4, 2021, at 9:00 PM, Jim. Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> I buy entire, brand new gear reduction starters for my diesel westy locally
> for about $115. Been using one for years now with no problem. Surely there
> is similar for WBX.
>
> Jim
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 7:33 PM Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> My experience? Failing starter. Yes, you can "knock" it to maybe get it
>> to oblige. The successful solution? Get one of these:
>> https://www.vancafe.com/WV-001-p/wv-001.htm
>> Pair it up with one of these: Bosch Hi Torque Starter
>>
>> |
>> |
>> |
>> | $209.95 | |
>>
>> |
>>
>> |
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>> | |
>> Bosch Hi Torque Starter
>>
>> Bosch Hi Torque Starter
>> |
>>
>> |
>>
>> |
>>
>> Do these two things, and worries are over. Yes, probably $500 altogether
>> parts and labor. Reliability? Priceless. I spent 2000 miles from
>> Missouri to San Diego, always having to bump start motor with inferior
>> products. You can't readily do the bump start with an auto trans. I did
>> these things, and now I never ever worry.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021, 05:13:33 PM PDT, Richard Smith (Smirby)
>> <smirby@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear vanagon list folk,
>>
>> I have a story to tell you.
>>
>> Long ago, my father purchased a 1985 Vanagon GL Westfalia edition. In 2013
>> I inherited it from him and in 2015 I sold it to one of my neighbours (so I
>> could buy a 1987 model).
>>
>> We are friends and I keep in touch with him and learn about any issues he
>> is having with “our old van.” In the past year, he’s had one that has
>> confounded both of us. And, thinking back, it also happened to my father
>> once or twice.
>>
>> Here’s the scenario. Keep in mind that we all (my father, me, my friend)
>> live on the coast of British Columbia, and on islands. This will become
>> important later on.
>>
>> First my father. Although it only happened once or twice, my father had
>> the situation of being in the ferry lineup and the van would fail to start.
>> Mysteriously, it would subsequently start and run perfectly and nothing
>> could be found to cause it.
>>
>> Fast forward ten years, and now my friend has the van. He not only lives
>> on an island like me, but he has purchased property up the coast, requiring
>> two more ferries to get to. And HE has the same issue. Waiting in the ferry
>> lineup, you go to load the van onto the ferry and it won’t start. Some time
>> later, after the ferry has left, it starts and runs fine. But everyone on
>> board the van, including the driver, is traumatized.
>>
>> In the quest to find out the problem, he replaced almost everything that
>> he could think of. It clearly seemed like an electrical issue, but after
>> replacing the ignition switch, safety switch at the transmission (it’s an
>> automatic), the starter itself, along with various ground straps and power
>> wires, the problem continued.
>>
>> It wasn’t that the battery was dead. It just wouldn’t start.
>>
>> In between these ferry trips, the van started and ran fine. Never stranded
>> them anywhere. What was going on?
>>
>> Finally, we hit on a possible explanation. There is “key in” power. That
>> is, some circuits are active just by having the key in. That’s how the door
>> buzzer that warns you that you have left your keys in the ignition is
>> activated, for example. My brother used to have his Vanagon’s radio (a
>> simple AM radio) wired so that it would run when the key was in the
>> ignition. Perhaps others have used this circuit for other things.
>>
>> And where do you sit, with the key in the ignition but the engine not
>> running for long periods of time? The ferry lineup. You are inside the
>> vehicle, so you don’t think to take the key out.
>>
>> Somehow, I think this tiny amount of power is (perhaps) leaking out into
>> the chassis and activating something: a relay or perhaps the computer
>> itself. This results in the van being unable to start.
>>
>> Anyway, since we happened upon this theory he has had no further instances
>> of the van not starting. Whenever he is stopped for any length of time, he
>> removes the keys from the ignition. And, if the key does get left in the
>> ignition for a length of time, removing it and reinserting it is sufficient
>> to bring it back to normal operation.
>>
>> I have no illusions that this is a normal operation. I suspect that there
>> is a wire cut somewhere, perhaps in the seat buzzer/“you’ve left your keys
>> in the ignition” circuit, and it is trickling power into the chassis. Given
>> VW’s penchant for completing circuits by interrupting the ground, this
>> voltage may be sufficient to light up the computer in the van and cause it
>> to go into a funky state.
>>
>> I would be interested in other people’s view on this theory, and if anyone
>> else has a weird no-start situation that seems to be very intermittent.
>> Given how seldom any of us would leave the keys in the ignition in our vans
>> AND have a wire broken or cut in that “key in” circuit, this may be a
>> unique situation. Anyway, I thought I would share it with you.
>>
>> …r
>>
>> —
>> Richard Smith, Professor CMNS
>> 604 653 6073 & smith@sfu.ca
>>
>>
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