Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 18:04:43 -0700
Reply-To: Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Key in power - no start situation
In-Reply-To: <959D7DA8-C710-4890-821F-41BF69B3B470@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Could it be that the key is too worn and fails to make good contact, even
with a new ignition switch?
On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 5:13 PM Richard Smith (Smirby) <smirby@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dear vanagon list folk,
>
> I have a story to tell you.
>
> Long ago, my father purchased a 1985 Vanagon GL Westfalia edition. In 2013
> I inherited it from him and in 2015 I sold it to one of my neighbours (so I
> could buy a 1987 model).
>
> We are friends and I keep in touch with him and learn about any issues he
> is having with “our old van.” In the past year, he’s had one that has
> confounded both of us. And, thinking back, it also happened to my father
> once or twice.
>
> Here’s the scenario. Keep in mind that we all (my father, me, my friend)
> live on the coast of British Columbia, and on islands. This will become
> important later on.
>
> First my father. Although it only happened once or twice, my father had
> the situation of being in the ferry lineup and the van would fail to start.
> Mysteriously, it would subsequently start and run perfectly and nothing
> could be found to cause it.
>
> Fast forward ten years, and now my friend has the van. He not only lives
> on an island like me, but he has purchased property up the coast, requiring
> two more ferries to get to. And HE has the same issue. Waiting in the ferry
> lineup, you go to load the van onto the ferry and it won’t start. Some time
> later, after the ferry has left, it starts and runs fine. But everyone on
> board the van, including the driver, is traumatized.
>
> In the quest to find out the problem, he replaced almost everything that
> he could think of. It clearly seemed like an electrical issue, but after
> replacing the ignition switch, safety switch at the transmission (it’s an
> automatic), the starter itself, along with various ground straps and power
> wires, the problem continued.
>
> It wasn’t that the battery was dead. It just wouldn’t start.
>
> In between these ferry trips, the van started and ran fine. Never stranded
> them anywhere. What was going on?
>
> Finally, we hit on a possible explanation. There is “key in” power. That
> is, some circuits are active just by having the key in. That’s how the door
> buzzer that warns you that you have left your keys in the ignition is
> activated, for example. My brother used to have his Vanagon’s radio (a
> simple AM radio) wired so that it would run when the key was in the
> ignition. Perhaps others have used this circuit for other things.
>
> And where do you sit, with the key in the ignition but the engine not
> running for long periods of time? The ferry lineup. You are inside the
> vehicle, so you don’t think to take the key out.
>
> Somehow, I think this tiny amount of power is (perhaps) leaking out into
> the chassis and activating something: a relay or perhaps the computer
> itself. This results in the van being unable to start.
>
> Anyway, since we happened upon this theory he has had no further instances
> of the van not starting. Whenever he is stopped for any length of time, he
> removes the keys from the ignition. And, if the key does get left in the
> ignition for a length of time, removing it and reinserting it is sufficient
> to bring it back to normal operation.
>
> I have no illusions that this is a normal operation. I suspect that there
> is a wire cut somewhere, perhaps in the seat buzzer/“you’ve left your keys
> in the ignition” circuit, and it is trickling power into the chassis. Given
> VW’s penchant for completing circuits by interrupting the ground, this
> voltage may be sufficient to light up the computer in the van and cause it
> to go into a funky state.
>
> I would be interested in other people’s view on this theory, and if anyone
> else has a weird no-start situation that seems to be very intermittent.
> Given how seldom any of us would leave the keys in the ignition in our vans
> AND have a wire broken or cut in that “key in” circuit, this may be a
> unique situation. Anyway, I thought I would share it with you.
>
> …r
>
> —
> Richard Smith, Professor CMNS
> 604 653 6073 & smith@sfu.ca
>
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