Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 10:03:50 -0600
Reply-To: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: LED HeadLights for 86-91 was Head light mystery
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR05MB4916966F89DC64D62CC2D6E2A0B19@BL0PR05MB4916.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
While looking for LEDs for the 05Tucson My Wife drives, I stumbled onto these & they worked so well
for the Tucson (Great Pattern) I decided to try on My 90Westy,, My old LEDs were very bright but pretty much
Flood Lights & these have a very nice TopCutOff most of the way across the top which angles up @ the right to
Flood the Shoulder & they have No Fan >
H4 LowBeams https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H4M3HGC/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H4M3HGC/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1> $44.44
After installing & very much liking those on the Westy, I went looking for H3s & found these > Lovin these as well (also No Fan, so fit just fine)>
H3 HighBeams https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09VK85NFY/ref=crt_ewc_title_dp_2?ie=UTF8&smid=A2T1V9Q9FCR2R3&th=1 <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09VK85NFY/ref=crt_ewc_title_dp_2?ie=UTF8&smid=A2T1V9Q9FCR2R3&th=1> $26.09
> On 18 Jun , 2022, at 7:43 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> For the Hella lights they take H4 bulbs. There are H4 LEDS available. Best place to look is Amazon. For 7 inch round headlights there are many complete assemblies available as they style is used for many motor cycles and Jeep vehicles. These do much better than some housings with retrofits and many offer other features such as daytime running lights and turn signals.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net>
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 4:38 PM
> To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
> Cc: Vanagon List <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Subject: Re: Head light mystery
>
> Great info,
>
> Yes, There is a loud and clear click in the front of the van when I turn on the key. I suspect that is the headlight relay. Though it could be a relay for something else as there are some wiring concerns. A lot of things were added and taken away over the years in the wiring.
>
> Once the critical systems are more reliable I will get to look at the over all electrical system.
>
> The only thing I didn’t understand in the info from Dennis is the LED bulbs info. Does that mean there are direct led replacements I can use in the Hella vision lenses?
>
> If so send me a link!
>
> Eric Caron
> 84 and 85 Westfalias.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>
>> Eric,
>> Headlight relays are a modification with many ways they can be wired and implemented. You need to do some investigation if you have them. If there, the usual give away is that you can usually here them click when energized and released.
>>
>> That said my initial response was an effort to provide troubleshooting information. In the act of checking the various parts of the circuit it will be discovered if a relay set up was added.
>>
>> From the engineering history perspective using the "X" contact for the ignition goes all the way back to the 71 model year. The goal, kill the headlights when trying to crank-restart the engine. As for switch capacity keep in mind you only had a 30 A/H generator so no thought was given to high wattage light bulbs. As heater fans, AC and other stuff was added, the "X" contact relay was added to carry those loads. Why the headlights were not moved to that is a mystery. Possibly due the requirements that headlights need to be fail proof. Mechanically operated switches fit that requirement. The is also why there is separate fusing foe each lamp filament. American vehicles use self-resetting breakers. The lights will flash so there is at least some lighting.
>>
>> Electrically, moving the feed for the headlight switch from the "X" contact to a more direct battery source will accomplish the same thing as relays. Only loss will be not having the lamps turn off while cranking or when the ignition is switched off.
>>
>> When adding relays to increase lamp output consideration really needs to be given to the full current path. While many Vanagons are equipped with a 90 A/H alternator the wiring from the alternator to the battery cable and from the battery to the fuse box-ignition switch is not designed to carry that load for any length of time and without significant voltage drop.
>>
>> As another option there are a number of LED bulbs available to replace the 9004's. The better ones will draw about 20 watts, much less than the original. I haven't found an ideal replacement for the H3 as the driver's side cannot accommodate the larger fan cooled bulbs. When shopping pay attention to the light output ratings. Some state per bulb per most state for the pair. For the 9004's the 3 or 4 sided units tend the work the best.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of Eric Caron
>> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 9:00 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Head light mystery
>>
>> This is great info and great reminders on our headlights.
>>
>> The 84 has Hella Vision upgrade from GW installed in 2010.
>>
>> How would I go about checking to see if they installed relays with the upgrade? Looking at the GW site I see they still sell the light and the bulbs. I didn’t see anything about adding a relay in the related products.
>>
>> If not there I am very interested in putting in a headlight relay and I may change the ignition switch for good measure.
>>
>> I suspect this will be a great headlight prevention and improvement for the electrical system.
>>
>> Still if the relays are all ready there I’m going to feel silly getting a set!
>>
>> My guess is that if GW didn’t recommend the relays they were not installed. I also noticed that there has not been an additional ground added to the headlights as many of us have done.
>>
>> Eric Caron
>> Slowly improving the 84
>> And really enjoying the 85!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 15, 2022, at 11:55 PM, John Rodgers <jrodgers113@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dennis, it's been a few years, but I installed a Jay Brown headlight relay
>>> kit. Takes electrical pressure off the headlight switch and prevents it
>>> from getting hot. In the stock system power goes right through the switch.
>>> But with the relays that heavy power load is re=routed.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 10:01 PM Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The headlight receive power from the "X" contact on the ignition switch,
>>>> through the headlight switch and then the high/low beam switch on the
>>>> steering column. Lifting the high beam lever provides power to the high
>>>> beams directly form the battery feed bypassing both the ignition "X"
>>>> contact and the headlight switch. Based on the described failure when the
>>>> lights do not work,try lightly moving the ignition switch, and then the
>>>> headlight switch. There could also be a loose or otherwise failing
>>>> connection somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of Eric
>>>> Caron
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2022 10:52 PM
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Head light mystery
>>>>
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> On my 84 We recently completed VT inspection.
>>>>
>>>> It first failed for two reasons, Headlights were not working, Muffler was
>>>> in failing condition, and a third reason the fuel line from tank to pump
>>>> was failing.
>>>>
>>>> I had all ready purchased the replacement fuel line adaptor kit from GW so
>>>> they popped that on for me, so no gas tank issues for me.
>>>> Side note, the line I replaced was also from GW. It was installed in 2010
>>>> and lasted about 11 years.
>>>> They then addressed the head lights.
>>>>
>>>> They eventually realized the headlights were fine they had neglected to
>>>> turn on the ignition. They forgot how it worked in an older vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> But, The mystery thickens.
>>>>
>>>> We got the muffler fixed and Heidi had to drive the van home late at
>>>> night.
>>>>
>>>> She had two problems. First, the running issues were back making it hard
>>>> to drive. More on this later. And, the headlights did not come on. She
>>>> held the brights on to see when possible.
>>>>
>>>> Being a determined VW bus driver and only being about 3 miles away from
>>>> home she made it home.
>>>>
>>>> Now, I went out today and checked the headlights. They worked normally.
>>>>
>>>> So, any idea why the headlights might sometimes not work and then next
>>>> time work normally?
>>>>
>>>> Nice to have a VT inspection sticker but I don’t want the lights failing
>>>> us when needed. But, it is hard to fix something when it isn’t broken!
>>>>
>>>> And, yes, she knows how to turn on the lights. It works exactly like the
>>>> 85 and she showed me the lights and was very surprised when they came on.
>>>>
>>>> Eric Caron
>>>> 84 Westfalia
>>>>
>>>>
>
| 
