Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 14:21:16 -0400
Reply-To: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Sorting out mechanical issues 85
In-Reply-To: <1552462785.2424960.1662400191377@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi Richard,
Having Dennis do this is not an option. He is located many hours from me and has a full plate of vanagons in his location. Vanagon repair is his passion not is lively hood. He has a day job. I’m counting on Dennis and others to talk me through it but I’m not faint of heart and am feeling a bit desperate to get my van in at least somewhat reasonable working order.
Locally I still have not found a proven vanagon mechanic.
I have not been able to complete a journey in my van for over 4 years that has not ended up with some type of mechanical failure, or failing system, or some reason for concern.
I’m stubborn but am being worn down.
In the past my busses and vanagons have been reliable except for one bus journey many decades ago.
I am beginning to feel like blind or not I’m as likely as anyone else to get the job done right.
So, I’ll do what I usually do. Gather as much info as I can, gather the parts. And either do the job alone or if lucky find a friend to help.
I so look forward to the day I get to go for a campout in this van and don’t worry about oil consumption, stalling, loud gas pumps, failing suspension, leaking injectors, poor gas mileage, wining power steering, leaking power steering hoses, the need to start twice,wining differentials, high transmission temperature, and now and then strange sounds from the brakes, not to mention constant CV boot rips.
.
In all my years of bus ownership this beloved 85 has just about turned into a lemon for me. I insist on getting it right but with ungodly amounts of money and time put into it I’m worn down.
At this point, I’m willing to risk my life to do it myself.
This list has talked me through many repairs in the past and this fuel tank will be the next one.
I know I need to be careful but it can’t be more dangerous then driving 60 miles with gas pouring down my engine.
Eric Caron
85 GL Auto
> On Sep 5, 2022, at 1:49 PM, Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Eric, I lovingly beseech you to NOT try to do this yourself.
>
> I am sighted...and sorta handy with tools. This job is way too much. And there is dangerous gasoline involved. Seek out the help of Dennis. He can do this job expertly. Yes....start to finish....new tank, new crossovers, new fuel tank sensor, even attention to expansion tanks in wheel wells.
>
> Yes, Dennis is your guy. He will make it right for a fair price.
>
> On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 10:35:43 AM PDT, Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> This sounds hopeful,
>
> My gas mileage has been poor for a long time about 14.4 to 14.9. miles per gallon.
>
> Also som occasional stalling and some idle up and down. The new pump seems to be working a bit better but I don’t want to wreck it so I want to get the tank done as fast as I can. I may have to do this solo so will need list advice for sure!
>
> Eric Caron
> 85 GL Auto
>
>
> > On Sep 5, 2022, at 1:29 PM, Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET <mailto:rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET>> wrote:
> >
> > No, you are not getting "air" in there. Those fuel pumps are very powerful. The bubbles (and noise) are due to vacuum. This is called "cavitation". Happens in vehicle fuel pumps, it also happens on outboard motor propellers. You are doing nothing wrong. But yes, a new fuel tank and new crossover tubes will end the misery. And spicy motor performance too...with better MPG as well.
> >
> > On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 10:16:32 AM PDT, Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net <mailto:ericcaron96@comcast.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Bench test is complete,
> >
> > pump out of van pumping fluid is quiet humming along without slurp sound. If I create friction it is still quiet. If I create air it makes a similar noisy sound. So I don’t know why there would be air getting in but the pump has sounded more or less wrong for a very long time now. I notice it early on but had other van issues ahead of the sound.
> >
> > I hope that replacing the tank gets me a happy pump and happier engine.
> >
> >
> >
> > 85 GL Auto
> >
> >
> > Eric Caron
> >
> >
> >> On Sep 5, 2022, at 11:12 AM, Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET <mailto:rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET>> wrote:
> >>
> >> When I did the fuel tank replacement, I bought it from VanCafe when they were still in Santa Cruz, CA. Yes, I intentionally got the one with the 12 mm outlet. My mechanic had to do the job twice: reason was leak at fuel level sensor. I think there are 6 metal tabs on the hole; guys on The Samba recommended slightly bending those 6 tabs down to achieve a more aggressive fit. The problem with doing that is that you risk scarring the plastic surface of fuel level sensor as you turn it in. I think (pure conjecture) that the ultimate solution is to bend the 6 tabs down but with pliers slightly bend up a leading edge on all 6 of those tabs; in this manner, you won't damage the plastic. I also think a very thin film of grease on the tabs will enhance engagement; with the leading edge slightly bent up but the tabs bent down for more aggressive fit, the plastic fuel level sensor will kind of initially be forced down but then pop back up when in home position. Again....this is all theory....I've never tried. Yes, I get a slight leak sometimes at fuel lever sensor hole on extreme gas fill ups (which I try to avoid). I have just learned to live with it.
> >>
> >> On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 07:54:04 AM PDT, Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net <mailto:ericcaron96@comcast.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Dennis,
> >>
> >> Do you recommend a particular source for the replacement tank?
> >>
> >> GW is out of the one I need. Only has one that I’d need a extra big grommet for and I think that just increases the chance for future failure.
> >>
> >> So, assuming my pump is happy on the bench test and sad when connected to the fuel tank where is the best replacement tank found?
> >>
> >> Where do you recommend getting the reseal kit from?
> >>
> >> If I’m going to drop and replace the tank I might as well start out with all new soft parts.
> >> Eric Caron
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 10:14 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM <mailto:d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> One of the bad design features of the Vanagon fuel tank is that the internals including the pick up screen is not serviceable. Just one tank of contaminated fuel and the trouble begins. To make it worse there is contamination when the crossover tubes-bushings fail along wit the vent valves and seal on top of the expansion tanks. Btw, the Syncro gas tank actually has a replaceable filter inside. Remove the fuel gauge sensor and you can reach in and unscrew the filter.
> >>>
> >>> In addition to the filter screen clogging, it is not stainless so it can rust. They can also collapse which causes it to land against the inlet pipe opening limiting the surface area to just that of the pipe. Over the years I have had a number of new tanks fail this way in a very short time. One summer I warranty replaced tanks and pumps 6 times on one van. 3 of those were towed back to me. Then there is putting it all together and having a leak at the fuel gauge sensor. I now smoke=pressure test all tank installs.
> >>>
> >>> For replacing the tank you want to get the later tank with the 11mm outlet.
> >>>
> >>> Dennis
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com <mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>> On Behalf Of Eric Caron
> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2022 10:44 PM
> >>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >>> Subject: Re: Sorting out mechanical issues 85
> >>>
> >>> Clever, but I have a pump sitting on my bench and happen to have an extra battery there as well. So I think I might be brave enough to rig up a bench test. I almost hope the pump is loud as My list of fixes on my van is growing out of control even for me!
> >>>
> >>> But if I need a new tank so be it.
> >>>
> >>> Eric Caron
> >>> 85 GL Auto
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Sep 4, 2022, at 10:08 PM, Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM <mailto:dn92610@GMAIL.COM>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> You could do this test for the price of a long hose. (I didn't try it yet)
> >>>>
> >>>> - Close the outlet hose from the fuel tank (with a pinch plier). Connect
> >>>> the long hose to the inlet of the fuel pump or the fuel filter. Put the
> >>>> other end of the long hose as far as you can in the fuel tank filler. Start
> >>>> the engine and try to listen for the noise and/or vibration by the feel
> >>>> with your hand.
> >>>> - No noise? -> then the in tank filter or the inlet is clogged.
> >>>> - Noise? -> then something wrong with the fuel pump.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Sep 4, 2022 at 6:09 PM Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net <mailto:ericcaron96@comcast.net>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> That’s what I’m afraid of.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This bus was with Dennis for 2 years so I was hoping the tank was good as
> >>>>> it had Benn up and down in the shop several times.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I’ll get help to bench test the pump but if it is fine I suspect my tank
> >>>>> is contaminated. A shame as it seems in great shape.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is it a fact that this problem can damage fuel injectors? Need to know as
> >>>>> I’ve already had one fail and plan to replace all 4. I don’t want to
> >>>>> damage the new ones.
> >>>>> Any recommendations on best gas tank for a 85?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Eric Caron
> >>>>> 85 GL Auto
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sep 4, 2022, at 12:26 PM, Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET <mailto:rjkinpb@SBCGLOBAL.NET>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dennis H. was the guy that explained it to me when I had the problem.
> >>>>> Most probably the issue is old fuel tank; gunk builds up at screen at
> >>>>> outlet. Fuel pump tries to do the best it can, but the result is
> >>>>> cavitation in fuel pump (noisy and the gurgling....and vapor bubbles in
> >>>>> fuel downstream, which fuel injectors Hate!) Sure, back-blowing with a
> >>>>> clean rubber hose (lung power only) into fuel tank may temporarily dislodge
> >>>>> some crud and that is OK for an emergency fix while on the road. But the
> >>>>> root cause is probably gunked up screen outlet. Fancy fuel pumps....cheap
> >>>>> fuel pumps....they will all cavitate creating noise and poor motor
> >>>>> performance. Especially noticeable on hot days or higher elevations as
> >>>>> gasoline vapor pressure changes. BTDT. After new fuel tank (new crossover
> >>>>> tubes too), my fuel pump is silent, and excellent motor performance.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 09:10:38 AM PDT, Rob <
> >>>>> vwrobb@gmail.com <mailto:vwrobb@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I bought an 84 Westy some years back with a real noisy pump. The guy
> >>>>>> who sold it to me told me he had tried to figure it out, it was a new
> >>>>>> pump & he'd covered it with something to quiet it down but it was
> >>>>>> still noisy.
> >>>>>> I put a new gas tank in and that cured the noise problem! I opened the
> >>>>>> old tank but saw nothing wrong..
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Rob
> >>>>>> vwrobb@gmail.com <mailto:vwrobb@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, Sep 4, 2022 at 6:35 AM Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net <mailto:ericcaron96@comcast.net>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So, both pumps sound unhappy when hooked up though a bit better with
> >>>>> the new gas filter.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Is there a good way to bench test my fuel pump to see if quiet when not
> >>>>> hooked to tank?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I’d like to know if I just have some loud unhappy sounding fuel pumps
> >>>>> or if it is something to do with my tank.
> >>>>>>> Concerns me that this new Bosch pump sounds as unhappy as my current
> >>>>> Amazon one I just removed.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Considering asking a friend to hook up power from an extra battery I
> >>>>> have here, to bench test, but would need to run gas as I test.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Crazy idea?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Why do it?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I’m concerned that crud might be getting to my engine perhaps sticking
> >>>>> fuel injectors.
> >>>>>>> Also the sound of the pump is creepily like the starting sound of a
> >>>>> differential with gears starting to wine. Every time I hear that sound as
> >>>>> we come to a stop my heart skips a beat. After loosing three differentials
> >>>>> all starting with that sound I just don’t want to hear it every time I go
> >>>>> out for a ride.
> >>>>>>> Anyone got a new old Bosh fuel pump or a good used one that is quiet?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Eric Caron 85 GL auto
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2022, at 11:34 AM, OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET <mailto:OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 3 Sep , 2022, at 8:27 AM, Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET <mailto:ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I’m planning to try to blow back with air compressor to see if that
> >>>>> even temporarily changes the sound.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Compressed Air for that purpose should not be more than Lung
> >>>>> Pressure >
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Clamp the hose between Tank & Fuel Pump, connect a long clean hose to
> >>>>> that hose & gently blow with mouth
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> as needed to hear bubbles in tank with GasCap removed ~
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> >
| 
