Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2023 14:42:51 -0700
Reply-To: Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Blam! Bleeder valve destruction and some other thoughts!
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR05MB4916752C39470A93DCE1DB21A08A9@BL0PR05MB4916.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
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Thanks Dennis...
This comes very very handy at the right time. My daughter came back from a
long trip and she has to top up the expansion cooling tank every couple
hundred miles. A small cooling hose was replaced in Tucson, AZ and I think
the shop didn't bleed it right. I will do it myself when the weather is
better... cold, rain, snow here in Oregon.
thank you... thank you...thank you,
dan
On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 8:05 AM Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Adding to the recent discussion on the future of service support for the
> Vanagon, having to deal with the cascade of parts failures that often
> accompanies repairs. Imagine the impact this presents to a shop now that
> the vehicle has to pushed off the lift and out of the way waiting for mor
> parts.
>
> Now back the technical.
> The hardest recovery for the Vanagon cooling system is having the radiator
> and coolant pipes emptied. This is the worst case have to bleed the system
> enough to get anything to flow. That bypass has to opened or the hose
> fittings opened enough for air to get out. I have even disconnected that
> top hose and back filled the hose and coolant pipe as that bypass is not
> really large enough to do this quickly.
>
> As for method of bleeding I have post many times. The process needs to be
> done quickly and be completed before the engine can significantly warmup.
>
> 2 nd person helps.
> Have person in rear ready to pour coolant and install cap. Screwdriver or
> something to hold engine 1,800 to 2,000 rpm.
> Person in front to operate bleeder. Here is the process!
>
> If system empty open radiator bleeder, fill pressure tank, allow coolant
> to flow down as much as possible. This will allow some coolant to fill
> coolant pipes and bottom of radiator. Do not raise front! Both heater
> valves should also be open.
> Option, If you have the means to pressurize (test set) the system, do so.
> You can use pressure to push the coolant up into the radiator. Close
> bleeder, add more coolant and use pressure opening bleeder, repeat until
> you get coolant at the bleeder. This method will do 90% of the bleeding
> process.
> Without the pressure fill option, start engine and immediate get revved up
> to the 1,800 rpm or so and hold it until completely done. This is extremely
> important as you need the pump to do the work.
> Fill pressure tank while the front bleeder (and bypass) is open until
> coolant comes out near bubble free.
> Close front bleeder. Top off pressure tank and install known good pressure
> cap. Now you can allow engine to return to idle.
> Hopefully this is all done before the temp gauge even begins to move.
> This should get you to the system will work. Let it run, test that both
> heaters are getting some flow. Occasionally rev engine a bit, watch temp
> gauge and check that you get radiator flow. During this reconnect hose to
> recovery tank and fill. Ensure radiator fan turn on.
>
>
> If this does not work, then next step is to wait for it to completely cool
> down. Do not open pressure and try to continue filling a hot engine. As the
> coolant warms up it will quickly vaporize and trying to fill the system
> while waiting for the thermostat to open actually effects engine the same
> as system pressure failure while driving. The thermostat needs coolant flow
> to operate. Without flow it and the temp sensor can only sense steam and at
> that point the engine is being tweaked.
>
> If all is well, over the next few heat-cool cycles the system will purge
> the remaining air out and refill from the recovery tank. Monitor it as it
> may need to be refilled. Keep in mind that fresh coolant will also have
> some entrained air that will also purge out.
>
> As for the choice of parts replacement, 85 was the last year that part was
> used. Do you think used will be reliably better than what you have?
> Current plastic replacement is probably from old acquired tooling with
> questionable quality. It should work but!
> For the aluminum one, someone invested significant time and money to
> develop that part. If we want entrepreneurs to continue to invest in
> supporting our vehicles we need to buy their stuff.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of Eric
> Caron
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2023 9:02 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Blam! Bleeder valve destruction
>
> Hi listers,
>
> So, Still working on doing my own radiator change out.
>
> New undamaged one now in the van. This one is made in South Africa in
> early 2020 according to the sticker.
>
> I waited for a friend to help with the process of adding in coolant into
> the reservoir. He has done this work before.
>
> Unfortunately. He lost patients when the temp sensor didn’t open and let
> hot coolant in and decided to open the engine bleeder
>
> This is the bleeder I mentioned was stuck and I decided not to ever turn
> it.
>
> Well he did, and it would then leak and could not be made to stop leaking.
>
> I have some options now.
>
> First, anyone out there got a good used 1.9 bleeder set up?
> Next, I could get a new plastic one.
>
> I only check GW as the site is pretty easy for me to use, but other
> venders might have better options.
> There is a aluminum one there for 221 but I’d like to be a bit more budget
> on this as I don’t expect the 1.9 set up to last more then another 10 years
> or so. After that electric?
> Another option, my friend took a old 1.9 bleeder and removed the valve and
> inspected the set up. Two tired o rings. He suggests we replace the o
> rings and then exchange this one with mine.
>
> That means just the piece that you open and close and not the entire
> assembly.
>
> Anyone ever try that before?
>
> This spare valve he will fix is working smoothly but the O rings are hard
> and broken, very likely like the ones in my current now leaking valve.
>
> Thoughts and suggestions?
>
> I know the “best thing is to upgrade everything to 2.1 but that isn’t an
> option unless I get a donor for the needed parts.
> In a way I’m glad he turned the bleeder as it clearly was in bad shape and
> even if not turned was likely to fail. So maybe best it happened in the
> garage.
>
> Bleeder thoughts or sources appreciated.
>
> Eric Caron
> 84 Westfalia
>
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