Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 09:24:59 -0400
Reply-To: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: metal coolant bottles Friday thoughts.
In-Reply-To: <CACvdLxOMMx7BDE771m_ayL4nC0GKASAZOJFbHDvfb19KAj+DNA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi David,
I can’t speak to your particular issue with the VC site. It may be it is shipped from somewhere else?
But, the VC site has caused me some difficulty lately. A couple weeks ago I ordered a product only they have. It was 89$. I put it in the cart on Friday evening.
On Saturday or maybe Sunday after receiving a couple reminder emails from VC to finish check out I went to the site to add a few small items and found my $89 item was now $130.
I had several emails with VC support with them mostly saying nothing they could do. I persisted as I was rather upset and ultimately they did honor the price and free shipping.
Things there seem like they are getting resolved with some bumps.
I like the free shipping, but I suspect the prices are going up to fill it in.
My last purchases at other venders had better then expected shipping costs. Only exception is drop ship items.
Eric Caron
> On Apr 25, 2023, at 1:00 AM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Well, I ordered the GW bottle. Seems to be a toss up re which one is
> better. Sure seems like a lot of money, but everyone seems to think the
> plastic bottles are pretty much crap now. Spending a lot on this camper to
> get it up to the travels I hope to put on it this summer.
>
> BTW, I also placed an order with Van Cafe, and was charged shipping. So, I
> cancelled and will check with them tomorrow. Their web site says no
> shipping charge ever. Does anyone know what's going on?
>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 8:32 PM Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Wow!
>>
>> Very helpful info. This makes it clear which one I would get when the
>> time comes.
>>
>> And, without this I would have likely chosen the wrong one.
>>
>> One comment on price. The VC option would now have free shipping so that
>> might make the cost closer to the GW version.
>>
>> The ability to update from 1.9 to 2.1 system would be my deciding factor.
>> The sensor also sounds like a better choice to me.
>> But, for you sighted folks that window in the GW one would be nice.
>> Eric Caron
>>
>>
>> Eric Caron
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 21, 2023, at 6:53 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes we made it to Friday. Yea!
>>> Regarding the original plastic pressure tanks one needs to consider how
>> important it is to the Vanagon cooling system and the ways in which they
>> fail. Not only do they just hold coolant but the design is such that it
>> ensures coolant is available to the suction side of the pump avoiding air
>> entrapment or a vortex. In addition it provides a place for dirt and other
>> debris to settle out. Both aftermarket tanks may not do this as well.
>>>
>>> Regarding failure yes they usually fail somewhat slowly and have some
>> warning. However I have seen the center seem suddenly fail, the top swell
>> over, the threads distort enough for the cap to separate. In addition to
>> the tank itself the pressure cap is also a high failure item due both
>> design and quality. Being almost all plastic it is also damaged by
>> excessive heat and pressure overtime and really the only way to know if it
>> is good is to test it. The Metal tanks address both the tank and cap
>> concerns. While many have older tanks that may still be good I would
>> suspect that some of these tanks are also in use on vehicles with cooling
>> systems that are not working properly and holding pressure. The newer tanks
>> are also of such poor materials that there use has some risk, along with
>> the pressure caps.
>>>
>>> So now for the 2 most common replacement choices. I have used the Van
>> café and GoWesty. Both are good. Here are the major differences.
>>>
>>> The Van Café has been around the longest. The good is that the level
>> sensor just requires a single wire connection and the fittings are
>> threaded, replaceable. This is nice if you get a tank for a 1.9L and then
>> later upgrade the cooling system to the 2.1L design. It also gives some
>> flexibility if you want to some modifications such as gauge ports or add a
>> coolant filter. For the bad there is no way to see the coolant level
>> without opening the cap, the screw for the sensor wire connection tends to
>> loosen, and there shroud around the sensor probe. The splash from the
>> coolant entering the tank can satisfy the sensor system so you may geta
>> delayed indication that coolant is being lost or that a head or gasket
>> problem is pushing the coolant out of the tank.
>>>
>>> The GoWesty tank has slight cost advantage, and uses the stock level
>> sensor probe. The probe is shrouded like the original so the warning system
>> should work the same. The sight glass is beneficial as you can see if the
>> level is dropping without removing the cap. You can also view this from the
>> license plate door. The bad is that sometimes the plastic sensor probes
>> leak or even crack and the plug connection is sometimes a problem. Broken
>> and corroded wires or the crimps-pins can cause some grief. Also, the hose
>> fittings are not replaceable. So if you buy for a 1.9L, and later upgrade
>> you will need to also upgrade the tank.
>>>
>>> Amongst the benefits of the metal tanks is the use of a standard
>> pressure cap. The cap design is easily inspected and both the system and
>> cap can now be tested with equipment that any shop, anywhere should have.
>> Also, there is now choice of pressure cap settings. For the Vanagon there
>> is no reason that anything higher than12 psi is needed. As the system is
>> designed to have a solid liquid fill the pressure cap is not just for
>> safety, it is actually a control device dealing with the liquid expansion
>> every time part of the cooling system increases in temperature and allowing
>> for coolant return as any part of the system cools. The operation of this
>> cap is also the final auto bleed for the system which is why the tank is
>> plumbed so close to the suction side of the pump.
>>>
>>> Due to some design features of the engine having the system always
>> pressurized is critical for heat transfer at the top of the cylinder
>> sleeves and avoiding cavitation erosion of the sleeves and studs. While the
>> gauge gives an indication of the bulk coolant temperature many parts get
>> much hotter and having the coolant vaporize or flash of these parts is
>> similar to having a pot on a stove go dry with the burner still on.
>> Aluminum and gaskets do not take this well. This should be considered when
>> postponing needed repairs.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of
>> David McNeely
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2023 11:36 PM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: metal coolant bottles
>>>
>>> BTW, my current plastic bottle is 14 yo, so what do I want? I probably
>> won't even be alive in 14 more years, and despite the scare verbage on the
>> GoWesty site, I don't think the bottles actually fail suddenly. Rather,
>> they get a small crack that grows over time. At least that's what happened
>> with mine, and monitoring it has worked. I WILL replace it, but with which
>> tank?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 8:04 PM Alistair Bell <
>> ragnarhairybreeks@icloud.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> I’d have no issue with either except I wonder, with no evidence or
>>>> experience, abiut the level Sender in each unit.
>>>> My first reply was reheat by list serv
>>>>
>>>> Anyway , that’s my only unknown
>>>>
>>>> Ab
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 20, 2023, at 7:54 PM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I have no doubt that the people who make them are charging
>>>> properly for what they've put into them. It is just a lot of money,
>>>> especially compared to the plastic ones. BTW, my local mechanic says
>>>> go with the plastic. But mine now has a slight crack at the neck, as
>>>> well as the cap not fitting properly any longer (cap threads a bit
>>>> askew). It is the German cap, too.
>>>>
>>>> But my question now is, which aluminum tank? mcneely
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 6:49 PM Alistair Bell <
>>>> ragnarhairybreeks@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dave, all I can say that despite the price those tanks are a good deal.
>>>>> You’d be hard pressed to find anyone good to make them less
>> expensively .
>>>>>
>>>>> Ab
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2023, at 6:07 PM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, so I may be ready to take the plunge and spend an ungodly
>>>>>> amount of money for a metal coolant expansion bottle. GoWesty, Van
>>>>>> Cafe? Which
>>>>> is
>>>>>> better and why? I like that the GoWesty bottle has a sight glass,
>>>>>> but
>>>>> then
>>>>>> the original plastic ones can't be seen without opening the engine
>>>>>> compartment, and that seemed to be ok. I have read that the GoWesty
>>>>> bottle
>>>>>> can fail at the sensor port just like the plastic ones. Is that true?
>>>>> Are
>>>>>> there any others available. mcneely
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
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