Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 22:00:43 -0700
Reply-To: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: metal coolant bottles Friday thoughts.
In-Reply-To: <4DA4F00F-432A-4804-B681-FA1494CC04D7@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Well, I ordered the GW bottle. Seems to be a toss up re which one is
better. Sure seems like a lot of money, but everyone seems to think the
plastic bottles are pretty much crap now. Spending a lot on this camper to
get it up to the travels I hope to put on it this summer.
BTW, I also placed an order with Van Cafe, and was charged shipping. So, I
cancelled and will check with them tomorrow. Their web site says no
shipping charge ever. Does anyone know what's going on?
On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 8:32 PM Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net> wrote:
> Wow!
>
> Very helpful info. This makes it clear which one I would get when the
> time comes.
>
> And, without this I would have likely chosen the wrong one.
>
> One comment on price. The VC option would now have free shipping so that
> might make the cost closer to the GW version.
>
> The ability to update from 1.9 to 2.1 system would be my deciding factor.
> The sensor also sounds like a better choice to me.
> But, for you sighted folks that window in the GW one would be nice.
> Eric Caron
>
>
> Eric Caron
>
>
>
> > On Apr 21, 2023, at 6:53 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >
> > Yes we made it to Friday. Yea!
> > Regarding the original plastic pressure tanks one needs to consider how
> important it is to the Vanagon cooling system and the ways in which they
> fail. Not only do they just hold coolant but the design is such that it
> ensures coolant is available to the suction side of the pump avoiding air
> entrapment or a vortex. In addition it provides a place for dirt and other
> debris to settle out. Both aftermarket tanks may not do this as well.
> >
> > Regarding failure yes they usually fail somewhat slowly and have some
> warning. However I have seen the center seem suddenly fail, the top swell
> over, the threads distort enough for the cap to separate. In addition to
> the tank itself the pressure cap is also a high failure item due both
> design and quality. Being almost all plastic it is also damaged by
> excessive heat and pressure overtime and really the only way to know if it
> is good is to test it. The Metal tanks address both the tank and cap
> concerns. While many have older tanks that may still be good I would
> suspect that some of these tanks are also in use on vehicles with cooling
> systems that are not working properly and holding pressure. The newer tanks
> are also of such poor materials that there use has some risk, along with
> the pressure caps.
> >
> > So now for the 2 most common replacement choices. I have used the Van
> café and GoWesty. Both are good. Here are the major differences.
> >
> > The Van Café has been around the longest. The good is that the level
> sensor just requires a single wire connection and the fittings are
> threaded, replaceable. This is nice if you get a tank for a 1.9L and then
> later upgrade the cooling system to the 2.1L design. It also gives some
> flexibility if you want to some modifications such as gauge ports or add a
> coolant filter. For the bad there is no way to see the coolant level
> without opening the cap, the screw for the sensor wire connection tends to
> loosen, and there shroud around the sensor probe. The splash from the
> coolant entering the tank can satisfy the sensor system so you may geta
> delayed indication that coolant is being lost or that a head or gasket
> problem is pushing the coolant out of the tank.
> >
> > The GoWesty tank has slight cost advantage, and uses the stock level
> sensor probe. The probe is shrouded like the original so the warning system
> should work the same. The sight glass is beneficial as you can see if the
> level is dropping without removing the cap. You can also view this from the
> license plate door. The bad is that sometimes the plastic sensor probes
> leak or even crack and the plug connection is sometimes a problem. Broken
> and corroded wires or the crimps-pins can cause some grief. Also, the hose
> fittings are not replaceable. So if you buy for a 1.9L, and later upgrade
> you will need to also upgrade the tank.
> >
> > Amongst the benefits of the metal tanks is the use of a standard
> pressure cap. The cap design is easily inspected and both the system and
> cap can now be tested with equipment that any shop, anywhere should have.
> Also, there is now choice of pressure cap settings. For the Vanagon there
> is no reason that anything higher than12 psi is needed. As the system is
> designed to have a solid liquid fill the pressure cap is not just for
> safety, it is actually a control device dealing with the liquid expansion
> every time part of the cooling system increases in temperature and allowing
> for coolant return as any part of the system cools. The operation of this
> cap is also the final auto bleed for the system which is why the tank is
> plumbed so close to the suction side of the pump.
> >
> > Due to some design features of the engine having the system always
> pressurized is critical for heat transfer at the top of the cylinder
> sleeves and avoiding cavitation erosion of the sleeves and studs. While the
> gauge gives an indication of the bulk coolant temperature many parts get
> much hotter and having the coolant vaporize or flash of these parts is
> similar to having a pot on a stove go dry with the burner still on.
> Aluminum and gaskets do not take this well. This should be considered when
> postponing needed repairs.
> >
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of
> David McNeely
> > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2023 11:36 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: metal coolant bottles
> >
> > BTW, my current plastic bottle is 14 yo, so what do I want? I probably
> won't even be alive in 14 more years, and despite the scare verbage on the
> GoWesty site, I don't think the bottles actually fail suddenly. Rather,
> they get a small crack that grows over time. At least that's what happened
> with mine, and monitoring it has worked. I WILL replace it, but with which
> tank?
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 8:04 PM Alistair Bell <
> ragnarhairybreeks@icloud.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> I’d have no issue with either except I wonder, with no evidence or
> >> experience, abiut the level Sender in each unit.
> >> My first reply was reheat by list serv
> >>
> >> Anyway , that’s my only unknown
> >>
> >> Ab
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 20, 2023, at 7:54 PM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Oh, I have no doubt that the people who make them are charging
> >> properly for what they've put into them. It is just a lot of money,
> >> especially compared to the plastic ones. BTW, my local mechanic says
> >> go with the plastic. But mine now has a slight crack at the neck, as
> >> well as the cap not fitting properly any longer (cap threads a bit
> >> askew). It is the German cap, too.
> >>
> >> But my question now is, which aluminum tank? mcneely
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 6:49 PM Alistair Bell <
> >> ragnarhairybreeks@icloud.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dave, all I can say that despite the price those tanks are a good deal.
> >>> You’d be hard pressed to find anyone good to make them less
> expensively .
> >>>
> >>> Ab
> >>>
> >>>> On Apr 20, 2023, at 6:07 PM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Ok, so I may be ready to take the plunge and spend an ungodly
> >>>> amount of money for a metal coolant expansion bottle. GoWesty, Van
> >>>> Cafe? Which
> >>> is
> >>>> better and why? I like that the GoWesty bottle has a sight glass,
> >>>> but
> >>> then
> >>>> the original plastic ones can't be seen without opening the engine
> >>>> compartment, and that seemed to be ok. I have read that the GoWesty
> >>> bottle
> >>>> can fail at the sensor port just like the plastic ones. Is that true?
> >>> Are
> >>>> there any others available. mcneely
> >>>
> >>
>
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