Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 07:38:43 -0700
Reply-To: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: metal coolant bottles Friday thoughts.
In-Reply-To: <6198C124-C2BA-490B-904B-A3E1A070DA47@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Haven't yet had time to deal with Van Cafe on this matter. Will try a bit
later today when I have more time.
On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 6:25 AM Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> I can’t speak to your particular issue with the VC site. It may
> be it is shipped from somewhere else?
>
> But, the VC site has caused me some difficulty lately. A couple weeks ago
> I ordered a product only they have. It was 89$. I put it in the cart on
> Friday evening.
>
> On Saturday or maybe Sunday after receiving a couple reminder
> emails from VC to finish check out I went to the site to add a few small
> items and found my $89 item was now $130.
>
>
> I had several emails with VC support with them mostly saying
> nothing they could do. I persisted as I was rather upset and ultimately
> they did honor the price and free shipping.
>
> Things there seem like they are getting resolved with some bumps.
>
> I like the free shipping, but I suspect the prices are going up to fill it
> in.
>
> My last purchases at other venders had better then expected
> shipping costs. Only exception is drop ship items.
>
> Eric Caron
>
>
> > On Apr 25, 2023, at 1:00 AM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >
> > Well, I ordered the GW bottle. Seems to be a toss up re which one is
> > better. Sure seems like a lot of money, but everyone seems to think the
> > plastic bottles are pretty much crap now. Spending a lot on this camper
> to
> > get it up to the travels I hope to put on it this summer.
> >
> > BTW, I also placed an order with Van Cafe, and was charged shipping.
> So, I
> > cancelled and will check with them tomorrow. Their web site says no
> > shipping charge ever. Does anyone know what's going on?
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 8:32 PM Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Wow!
> >>
> >> Very helpful info. This makes it clear which one I would get when the
> >> time comes.
> >>
> >> And, without this I would have likely chosen the wrong one.
> >>
> >> One comment on price. The VC option would now have free shipping so
> that
> >> might make the cost closer to the GW version.
> >>
> >> The ability to update from 1.9 to 2.1 system would be my deciding
> factor.
> >> The sensor also sounds like a better choice to me.
> >> But, for you sighted folks that window in the GW one would be nice.
> >> Eric Caron
> >>
> >>
> >> Eric Caron
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Apr 21, 2023, at 6:53 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Yes we made it to Friday. Yea!
> >>> Regarding the original plastic pressure tanks one needs to consider how
> >> important it is to the Vanagon cooling system and the ways in which they
> >> fail. Not only do they just hold coolant but the design is such that it
> >> ensures coolant is available to the suction side of the pump avoiding
> air
> >> entrapment or a vortex. In addition it provides a place for dirt and
> other
> >> debris to settle out. Both aftermarket tanks may not do this as well.
> >>>
> >>> Regarding failure yes they usually fail somewhat slowly and have some
> >> warning. However I have seen the center seem suddenly fail, the top
> swell
> >> over, the threads distort enough for the cap to separate. In addition to
> >> the tank itself the pressure cap is also a high failure item due both
> >> design and quality. Being almost all plastic it is also damaged by
> >> excessive heat and pressure overtime and really the only way to know if
> it
> >> is good is to test it. The Metal tanks address both the tank and cap
> >> concerns. While many have older tanks that may still be good I would
> >> suspect that some of these tanks are also in use on vehicles with
> cooling
> >> systems that are not working properly and holding pressure. The newer
> tanks
> >> are also of such poor materials that there use has some risk, along with
> >> the pressure caps.
> >>>
> >>> So now for the 2 most common replacement choices. I have used the Van
> >> café and GoWesty. Both are good. Here are the major differences.
> >>>
> >>> The Van Café has been around the longest. The good is that the level
> >> sensor just requires a single wire connection and the fittings are
> >> threaded, replaceable. This is nice if you get a tank for a 1.9L and
> then
> >> later upgrade the cooling system to the 2.1L design. It also gives some
> >> flexibility if you want to some modifications such as gauge ports or
> add a
> >> coolant filter. For the bad there is no way to see the coolant level
> >> without opening the cap, the screw for the sensor wire connection tends
> to
> >> loosen, and there shroud around the sensor probe. The splash from the
> >> coolant entering the tank can satisfy the sensor system so you may geta
> >> delayed indication that coolant is being lost or that a head or gasket
> >> problem is pushing the coolant out of the tank.
> >>>
> >>> The GoWesty tank has slight cost advantage, and uses the stock level
> >> sensor probe. The probe is shrouded like the original so the warning
> system
> >> should work the same. The sight glass is beneficial as you can see if
> the
> >> level is dropping without removing the cap. You can also view this from
> the
> >> license plate door. The bad is that sometimes the plastic sensor probes
> >> leak or even crack and the plug connection is sometimes a problem.
> Broken
> >> and corroded wires or the crimps-pins can cause some grief. Also, the
> hose
> >> fittings are not replaceable. So if you buy for a 1.9L, and later
> upgrade
> >> you will need to also upgrade the tank.
> >>>
> >>> Amongst the benefits of the metal tanks is the use of a standard
> >> pressure cap. The cap design is easily inspected and both the system
> and
> >> cap can now be tested with equipment that any shop, anywhere should
> have.
> >> Also, there is now choice of pressure cap settings. For the Vanagon
> there
> >> is no reason that anything higher than12 psi is needed. As the system is
> >> designed to have a solid liquid fill the pressure cap is not just for
> >> safety, it is actually a control device dealing with the liquid
> expansion
> >> every time part of the cooling system increases in temperature and
> allowing
> >> for coolant return as any part of the system cools. The operation of
> this
> >> cap is also the final auto bleed for the system which is why the tank is
> >> plumbed so close to the suction side of the pump.
> >>>
> >>> Due to some design features of the engine having the system always
> >> pressurized is critical for heat transfer at the top of the cylinder
> >> sleeves and avoiding cavitation erosion of the sleeves and studs. While
> the
> >> gauge gives an indication of the bulk coolant temperature many parts get
> >> much hotter and having the coolant vaporize or flash of these parts is
> >> similar to having a pot on a stove go dry with the burner still on.
> >> Aluminum and gaskets do not take this well. This should be considered
> when
> >> postponing needed repairs.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dennis
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of
> >> David McNeely
> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2023 11:36 PM
> >>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >>> Subject: Re: metal coolant bottles
> >>>
> >>> BTW, my current plastic bottle is 14 yo, so what do I want? I probably
> >> won't even be alive in 14 more years, and despite the scare verbage on
> the
> >> GoWesty site, I don't think the bottles actually fail suddenly. Rather,
> >> they get a small crack that grows over time. At least that's what
> happened
> >> with mine, and monitoring it has worked. I WILL replace it, but with
> which
> >> tank?
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 8:04 PM Alistair Bell <
> >> ragnarhairybreeks@icloud.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Dave
> >>>>
> >>>> I’d have no issue with either except I wonder, with no evidence or
> >>>> experience, abiut the level Sender in each unit.
> >>>> My first reply was reheat by list serv
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyway , that’s my only unknown
> >>>>
> >>>> Ab
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 20, 2023, at 7:54 PM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh, I have no doubt that the people who make them are charging
> >>>> properly for what they've put into them. It is just a lot of money,
> >>>> especially compared to the plastic ones. BTW, my local mechanic says
> >>>> go with the plastic. But mine now has a slight crack at the neck, as
> >>>> well as the cap not fitting properly any longer (cap threads a bit
> >>>> askew). It is the German cap, too.
> >>>>
> >>>> But my question now is, which aluminum tank? mcneely
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 6:49 PM Alistair Bell <
> >>>> ragnarhairybreeks@icloud.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Dave, all I can say that despite the price those tanks are a good
> deal.
> >>>>> You’d be hard pressed to find anyone good to make them less
> >> expensively .
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ab
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Apr 20, 2023, at 6:07 PM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ok, so I may be ready to take the plunge and spend an ungodly
> >>>>>> amount of money for a metal coolant expansion bottle. GoWesty, Van
> >>>>>> Cafe? Which
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>> better and why? I like that the GoWesty bottle has a sight glass,
> >>>>>> but
> >>>>> then
> >>>>>> the original plastic ones can't be seen without opening the engine
> >>>>>> compartment, and that seemed to be ok. I have read that the GoWesty
> >>>>> bottle
> >>>>>> can fail at the sensor port just like the plastic ones. Is that
> true?
> >>>>> Are
> >>>>>> there any others available. mcneely
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
>
>
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