Date:         Fri, 11 Aug 2023 01:29:56 -0400
Reply-To:     Gabriel Hourtouat <ghourtouat@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Gabriel Hourtouat <ghourtouat@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Water in the Gas Tank
In-Reply-To:  <F09B4862-0D65-4B2C-AA0C-6476991737CC@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Eric,
Grommets, and other gas system components!!!   I got them all from Eric
Ley, Elm Garage.
Per someone's recommendation.  And I think you had also recommended him.
He supplied me in excellent time (discounting the three delay for a
national holiday of Quebec)

(One of the vapour expansion tanks was leaking at the base of the hose
connection nipple, even though it had been well enough packaged.  It looked
like a mftg issue to me.  Fixed it with epox and went camping.)

Sorry it took so long to find this info.

Cheers,
gabby





On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 10:42 PM Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net> wrote:

> Where did you get your grommets from?  Wondering why they seemed more
> substantial.
>
>         Eric Caron
>
>
>
> > On Jun 30, 2023, at 12:23 AM, Gabriel Hourtouat <ghourtouat@GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >
> > Progress report:
> > -The vent lines, 2 to each of the two vapour tanks, were rotten
> > -grommet/seal in the top of the two vapour tanks had rotted right in
> half,
> > with the bottom half having fallen into the tanks
> > -fuel gauge o-ring was leaking
> > -three grommets in the top of the tank and the main filler tube grommet
> all
> > seemed ok, but when compared with new grommets, I could see that the fit
> of
> > the 10 year old grommets had been a bit sloppy; AND ALSO the new grommets
> > seem to be heavier and more substantial..
> >
> > WRONG!
> > I thought I needed to tip the tank towards the pump in order to get the
> > last drop out of the tank.  WRONG.  The supply pipe and return pipe are
> > both visible through the tank openings -- these pipes continue inside the
> > tank and draw and return to and from the bottom-most, central part of the
> > tank.  Seems to me that you only need to keep the tank horizontal to get
> > the most out of your tank.
> >
> > Additionally baffles are visible inside the tank.  Are these baffles
> > arranged to assist with gas mixing, settling, or preventing slosh?
> (Slosh
> > might have an upsetting effect on the vehicle stability during
> enthusiastic
> > cornering?)
> >
> > Drove the van around the block -- no more gassy smell in the driveway!
> > Yay!!!
> >
> > cheers,
> > gabby
> > 86 wbx
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 5:22 PM Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Water can get into the fuel supply from a number of sources. While not
> >> common these days you can also get contaminated fuel from a station.
> >> Even without known leaks it happens that water will condense in the fuel
> >> tank during storage. As temperature change whenever the air is warmer
> than
> >> the tank or the fuel in it there can be condensation. I have had
> gearboxes
> >> stored indoors get filled with water during winters.
> >>
> >> From the failure point of view the crossover tubes at the top of the
> tank
> >> are a common failure. There is also the expansion tanks and vent lines
> in
> >> the wheel wells. There is also the inlet valve near the air filter the
> >> connections to the carbon canister. While rarely done having the system
> >> inspected and tested once a year or so is good insurance.
> >>
> >> Now for the bad. Water and the resulting rust is bad for many parts of
> the
> >> injection system and can also damage the engine. After purging it out
> >> enough to get you running some "Drygas" will help to keep it in
> suspension
> >> util it all gets burned out. The fuel filter will try to catch some of
> it
> >> so change that often. If you see signes of rust yu have had a problem
> for
> >> some time.
> >>
> >> And this event is one where you would appreciate a Syncro. There is a
> >> filter inside the tank that is replaceable.
> >>
> >> Dennis
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of
> Eric
> >> Caron
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 4:59 PM
> >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >> Subject: Re: Water in the Gas Tank
> >>
> >> If you don’t remember when this was last done it probably needs to be
> >> done!
> >>
> >> If you have long arms and a positive attitude you can likely do it
> without
> >> dropping the tank fully if at all.  I would leave the sender alone as
> it is
> >> the least likely problem.  You can inspect the grommets and find the
> >> problem.
> >>
> >> Eric Caron
> >>
> >>
> >>> On May 30, 2023, at 2:22 PM, OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>       Another likely suspect is the Hole in the top of 1 or Both of the
> >> Fuel Evap’
> >>>
> >>> Expansion Tanks which are located in the Wheel Wells directly below
> >>> the Driver
> >>>
> >>> & Pass’ Seats,,, There is a  Grommet around a Breather Valve in the
> >>> top of each
> >>>
> >>> tank which can & does go bad & disappear allowing water flung by the
> >>> tires to be
> >>>
> >>> introduced into the Fuel Syst’ ~
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 30 May , 2023, at 11:24 AM, Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The water enters the gas tank probably from one of those 4
> >>>> holes/ports you see here. A new fuel tank or a reseal kit.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgowe
> >>>> sty.com%2Fproducts%2Ffuel-tank&data=05%7C01%7C%7C5d28697c5c64487b0e93
> >>>> 08db6150cdd1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63821077193
> >>>> 1246047%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL
> >>>> CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=N7MAhnH6vNu74PRRs
> >>>> JoJkxidLwhFFgtgvU535LVVZBs%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 10:00 AM Gabriel Hourtouat
> >>>> <ghourtouat@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi friends, it seems like ages since I have had anything to add.
> >>>>> Glad to be back:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I had to drain water out of my gas tank after lurching, coughing and
> >>>>> sagging onto a campsite this past weekend.  Not sure how the water
> >>>>> got in there -- gas tank sender?  It had been raining.  Pointers on
> >>>>> where to look for the point of ingress would be appreciated.  I
> >>>>> assumed that the water would be on th bottom of the tank so I purged
> >>>>> according to the method I describe below.  My trip home was
> >>>>> uneventful so I initially assumed that my purge was successful since
> >>>>> I had continued to purge off the bottom of the tank until the gas
> >>>>> looked clear and clean.  HOWEVER, thinking back: the crud that came
> >>>>> out of my tank (and fuel line) separated into two phases in my
> >>>>> inspection bowl.  What is troubling me now, is that the bottom
> >>>>> liquid was clear, and the TOP looked like an emulsion.  So if the
> >>>>> emulsion was floating on top of the gas in my inspection bowl, should
> >> it not have also been floating on top of the gas in the tank?  Harumph.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For reference in case it's handy for anyone else:
> >>>>> -An effective draining/purging of the gas tank; -take precautions to
> >>>>> NOT CATCH FIRE OR BLOW UP.
> >>>>> -front right tire elevated 4.5" onto three 2x6" board thicknesses
> >>>>> -front left tire elevated to near max height of the vehicle jack
> >>>>> which was also elevated about 1.5" off the ground -use fuel hose
> >>>>> clamps to control fuel flow***.  Allow zero leaks.
> >>>>> -disconnect hose to the prefilter and catch the gas and crud into a
> >>>>> suitable inspection vessel such as a (CLEAN!) clear disposable food
> >>>>> container -drain small batches (half litre) at a time so you can
> >>>>> inspect frequently and get a good feeling of when the fuel in your
> >>>>> tank is good.  Pour the purged fuel into a suitably rated fuel can
> >>>>> for later disposal (alternately, you can just drain large amounts
> >>>>> directly into a fuel can?) -give the prefilter a shake and rinse it
> >>>>> in some of that convenient clean fuel since it's almost off anyways,
> >>>>> reconnect -disconnect the fuel return line from the other side of
> >>>>> the fuel tank (I took the rigid tube out of the flexible hose) -run
> >>>>> the engine while catching the crud that you are purging out of the
> >>>>> fuel supply loop into your inspection vessel or fuel can -reconnect
> >>>>> the return line -run engine and inspect for leaks. DOUBLE CHECK.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ***I keep two fuel line hose clamps (orange plastic/nylon
> >>>>> pliers-style clamps made for closing off hoses) in my driver's side
> >>>>> door pocket for emergency closing of fuel or coolant hoses.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Purging the fuel line was worth the trouble because that's where the
> >>>>> ugliest stuff was hiding.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> gabby
> >>>>> 86 waterboxer westy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 8:49 PM Tom C <thomas.casal@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Oh yea I changed all the fuel lines including the plastic got rid
> >>>>>> of the firewall failure point etc… I resealed the tank also this
> >>>>>> was all about 6 years ago. Tank reseal just failed last week not
> >>>>>> sure where yet have to burn off fuel so I can drop the tank. I’m
> >>>>>> guessing the rubber o ring for the fuel sender failed.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 8:31 PM Chris Cary <chriscary48@yahoo.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I might’ve missed it. But did you do the lines that go to the two
> >>>>> little
> >>>>>>> plastic tanks that are inside front wheel wells?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >>>>>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> >>>>>>> overview.mail.yahoo.com%2F%3F.src%3DiOS&data=05%7C01%7C%7C5d28697c
> >>>>>>> 5c64487b0e9308db6150cdd1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
> >>>>>>> 0%7C638210771931246047%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
> >>>>>>> iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sd
> >>>>>>> ata=lmywuny%2FLygFPY%2F0g8DdTaxmyIbY1gElZhQwqWFbXeg%3D&reserved=0>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, December 11, 2021, 4:51 PM, Tom C
> >>>>>>> <thomas.casal@GMAIL.COM
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks fellas. Sucks when the fuel tank reseal fails after 5, 6
> >> years.
> >>>>> I
> >>>>>>> have to start looking into higher quality rubber seals especially
> >>>>>>> that rubber o ring around the fuel sender. I have a feeling that’s
> >>>>>>> where
> >>>>> it’s
> >>>>>>> leaking.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
>
>