Date:         Sat, 23 Dec 2023 13:32:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Mystery starting issue 85 auto
Comments: To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <SJ2P222MB09724FA8FDBF8BDC21A20198A09BA@SJ2P222MB0972.NAMP222.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Got it,

        I know just where that is. 

I can add this to my list to check when I have a helper handy. 
Also, this is starting to seep a little oil.  Is there a particular seal needed for this component

Is this the one you once mentioned you used a particular seal from a VW bug?

That is very interesting about the window in the Cam sensor, to check set up.

When you say sink with crank case sensor,

Where is that one located, and how do I know it is sinked?

Amazing that you know this stuff off the top of your head. 

And, I learn a lot when I have a problem to solve!

I have a good feeling that these list tips and directions from Dennis may be leading me to a list success on this hot start issue.

Eric 

> On Dec 23, 2023, at 11:56 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The cam position sensor is the part that replaces the distributor. There is an inspection window on top and it gets set up visually. With the engine set at top dead center for cylinder #1 you can see the actuator in the window. The housing is turned to line it up for the correct position. As the is paly in the distributor gear I find it usually works better to set it a bit retarded. The ECU has to find this TDC mark and align it with the crank sensor every time it tries to start. The cam sensor only reads once every 2 revolutions. 
>  
> Dennis
>  
>  
> From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net <mailto:ericcaron96@comcast.net>> 
> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2023 11:18 AM
> To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM <mailto:d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>>
> Cc: Vanagon List <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>>
> Subject: Re: Mystery starting issue 85 auto
>  
> Hi Dennis,
>  
>                This is great info.  Nice to know you have seen this before. 
>  
> Can you give me a little more direction on how to use the scan gauge to see if the cam sensor and crank sensor are properly sinked? 
> I can have a friend look at the voltage, what would too low be? 
>  
> I so appreciate having some direction on where to start looking to solve the issue.
>  
> Eric Caron 
> 85 Auto 2.3 
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> On Dec 22, 2023, at 2:11 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM <mailto:d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>> wrote:
>  
> Eric,
> I didn't see the initial email or realize it is your van with the starting issue. 
> For the GoWesty EFI set up intermittent no starts can be caused by the cam position sensor and crank position sensor not being synced. 
> Have the cam position sensor setting checked and  find it helps to have it retarded a bit (more clockwise than indicated). 
> Also need to confirm battery voltage being maintained while cranking. As you have an oversized starter it takes more current and will spin the engine even with a low battery but of you don’t have sufficient voltage while cranking the ECU may not be able to get it going. I see this even on the stock set ups with oversized starters with bad batteries, cables.
> 
> With the scan gauge you should be able to confirm all the sensors and also battery voltage to the ECU while cranking. 
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com <mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>> On Behalf Of Eric Caron
> Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2023 9:11 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Subject: Re: Mystery starting issue 85 auto
> 
> HI John,
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Was this a 1.9 ECU? 
> 
> Or a different system?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Eric Caron 
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 21, 2023, at 8:50 PM, John Lauterbach <john@jhl.mgacoxmail.com <mailto:john@jhl.mgacoxmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Sometime in the late 1990's I purchased an '84 Vanagon.  I had the same problem until a mechanic at a local TBA store found the problem.  The contacts between the FI cable and the FI computer had gotten dirty.  He cleaned them up, and problem went away.  After that, I always cleaned them a few times a year.  Problem never happened again.
> 
> John
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET <mailto:ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET> <mailto:Eric%20Caron%20%3cericcaron96@COMCAST.NET%3e>>
> Reply-To: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET <mailto:ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET> <mailto:Eric%20Caron%20%3cericcaron96@COMCAST.NET%3e>>
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Subject: Mystery starting issue 85 auto
> Date: 12/21/2023 08:16:18 PM
> 
> Hi listers,
> 
>        I’m hoping folks can help.
> 
> Today, roads clear of salt I took the bus for a run to Keen NH about 20 miles away.
> 
> After a visit to Harbor freight, got to love this new adjustable socket wrench, we tried to start the van to leave.
> 
> The van seemed to start, and then immediately died. 
> 
> This kept happening. 
> 
>        I called my local mechanic that had recently done some work.  He thought vacuum issue and I checked hoses.
> 
> His wife then offered to drive over and check out the issue and do a video call if needed.
> 
> 
> So, we waited for about 15 minutes in 35 degrees weather.
> 
> We, let the van cool to see if that might make a difference. 
> 
>        When My mechanic’s better half arrived she checked hoses, and connections, all looked good.  She checked both on and under the van. 
> 
> We then tried to start the van… 
> 
> And, it started. 
> 
> Nothing seemed wrong. 
> 
> But, we didn’t turn it off incase it didn’t start.
> 
> We drove to mechanic, and things seemed to look good over all. 
> 
> We noted one issue I’ll mention separately. 
> 
>        We made a plan, I would take it home, and if it doesn’t start when hot I would bring it back in the Spring to have this addressed. 
> 
> So, we drove it home.  And, I tried to start the van once it was safe in the garage.
> 
> And…
> 
> No start.  It starts, but rather then idling it dies.  And, I mean dies like the key is turned off.
> 
> When van is completely cooled down it might take two tries, but the van starts, idles and runs fine.
> 
> This is a GW 2.3 with GW engine management. 
> 
> I’d love to figure this out before spring.
> 
> So, any suggestions from folks as to what to look for or try?
> 
> Eric Caron 
> 85 Auto GW 2.3