Date:         Thu, 07 Apr 94 21:14:04 CDT
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         Joel Walker <JWALKER@ua1vm.ua.edu>
Subject:      Re: Crashworthiness of Vanagons?

>I just test drove an 86 Vanagon today.  I must say that I was amazed how
>quiet, powerful, and otherwise well-behaved it seemed to me, compared to
>my old 77 Westfalia.  I am considering getting one of these vehicles sometime

:) they will indeed spoil you. :)

>soon, but I am wondering what the wisdom is regarding the ability of Vanagons
>to keep their passengers healthy during a crash.  Other that going and looking

my insurance company, USAA, lists the vanagon as failing head-on crashes, but
then so did the chevy astro and ford aerostar (because of driver injury).
now, USAA also listed the vanagon as better-than-average in side impact
crashes (cause you sit higher than the other fellow's bumpers). the failure
in head-on crashes is due to driver injuries ... steering wheel, pedal cluster
hitting legs. but what i have found is that head-on crashes are usually ...
usually the fault of you, the driver of the car. unless, of course, some
absolute idiot swaps lanes. in which case, if you don't have an airbag, you're
gonna get hurt.

i'll put it this way: when i had a 1989 Mercedes 260E (4-door 300-series
sedan, 6-cyl, with driver's airbag), it's insurance was only $40/6-months
cheaper than the bus. now, the Medical costs were MUCH lower ... because of
the airbag. the cost of repair on the MB kicked everything back up to nearly
the same level as the bus.

the way i look at it: if you drive a bus already, the vanagon will be much
safer in a head-on crash. why? bigger frame and 'safety' members behind the
bumpers. but none of this matters if YOU, the driver, don't pay attention to
what you are doing and what those other idiots are doing. in other words,
with no front end on the car, YOU have to make up the difference with better-
than-average driving skills. but you should already have some of that: you
drive a bus.

a lot of that insurance crash-test stuff all depends on what you hit. if a
cadillac or volvo is hit by an 18-wheeler, they are toast. same thing with
any small-something and any big-something. of course, if really-small gets
hit by really-big, you can kiss your ass goodbye. (or hello, depending on
the impact!).

if you are really worried about this, go find a junkyard with vanagons. look
at the wrecks. THAT's where you get to really see what happens to cars and
which ones protect their occupants. my observations are volvo and mercedes.
japanese cars do NOT do well ... well, at least up to two years ago (cause
that's all i've seen in the yards). american cars do NOT seem to do well.
rabbits and golfs do NOT do well. vanagons seem to all be rollovers or side-
impacts, right behind the drivers. one rear-ender.

i can understand why other people would not want to drive one, but i happen
to like them (ok, so i've been habitualized by vw buses since 1970!).

>BTW, here's the deal on the Vanagon I tested:  115K, clean inside and very
>little rust,  no records, but the clutch feels good, and it looks like

any rust? where? under the windows and windshield? take the grill off and look
in there ... that's a favorite place for northern buses to rust!

>there has been no head work.  Also, it has a new water pump.

ALL water-cooled buses have had to have the water pump replaced. no big deal.
but if no records, how do you know? sales-droid say-so?  what is the color
of the coolant in the little white tanks? it had better be blue!!! if it is
yellow or green, that means they are using a coolant that contains phosphate
which is NOT recommended by vw. (if you want, i'll send you my notes on the
coolant).

check the rear hatch struts. they go bad and cost a lot ... $50 each. use
that to knock down the price.

does it have the 'weekender' pkg? rear seat folds down into a bed.

does it have the 3-speed heater fan on the dash (right of the steering wheel)?

check battery connections: you might be able to tell if the cables have been
removed (meaning either a new battery, or somebody has been working on the
engine).

check for evidence of recall campaigns on the driver's doorjam. should be
several (PB, PW, and SU just for starters). if not, you might be able to get
vw to still do these things. it's for driveablility (fuel problems) and the
air conditioning ducts fall down and hit you. :)

>The place wants $3995, but I already know that I could have it for $3100,
>or $2000 if I trade in my Audi Coupe (83, with 135K).  How does this
>compare to deals you have gotten?

down here these idiots jack the price waaaaaay up! but they don't ever sell
them ... they wind up wholesaling them off the lots. example. a 1987 vanagon
automatic Wolfsburg ... asking $8000!!!! he got $4000 for it. 78,000 miles.

for info: my 1986 Vanagon GL, with a/c, power mirrors, weekender pkg, rear
wiper/washer, cost new $16,547.  using my 'rule of thumb' depreciation method
<20% the first year, 15% each year after that> ... 1986 - 1994 = 9 years.
working that down yields $3,600 as what the thing is worth. rule of thumb,
that is. and if you want to count 1995 model year, it drops to $3060. so
your $3100 seems about right. which means he's still making a profit.

do you really want to get rid of your audi car? can't keep it as a 2nd car?
just a thought.

recommends? i like my water-cooled bus. the only reason i got rid of my old
1986 was that the dealer could never get the fuel injection sorted out and
i didn't know enough then to fix it myself. the fuel injection turns out to
be sensitive to bad sensors/senders. :(  but they are pretty cheap: $35.

hope it helps.
joel