Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 19:41:06 -0600 (CDT)
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From: dunham@mpd.tandem.com (Jerry Dunham)
Subject: Re: Sportsvans (sic) and Vanagons
]From vanagon@lenti.med.umn.edu Tue Apr 12 15:02:20 1994
]From: William Warburton <william@festival.ed.ac.uk>
]
]
]> Perhaps they would have been ahead of the game to come out with the new
]> front-drive model for the Euromarket, while merely updating the Vanagon
]> with a different drivetrain for the North American market. I can't be-
]> lieve that development costs for putting a Passat drivetrain under the
]> floor of a Vanagon would have been very great, and they might well have
]> garnered more sales here in this market.
]
] Hmm, why do you think that an updated Vanagon would have been more successful
]than the Eurovan? We agree on the one advantage (better interior to exterior
]length ratio) that the rear engined design has but I don't think that single
]factor would make a huge difference to sales, do you?
VW isn't going to be a mainstream player with either, so I feel that they
would be better off keeping the niche market they already had - people
like us who like the unusual qualities of the Typ IIs. The EuroVan tries
to be a better American minivan than the American minivans, and very few
Americans believe it. The Vanagon only tried to be a better VW bus. That
is a much smaller market, but at least it's THEIR market.
] If you are right and the Vanagon was well-perceived in the US then it sounds
]like this would have been a very sensible move.
We'll never know if I'm right. Others on this list don't agree with me.
]> Today the volume markets for minivans are: people movers, owned by
]> Chrysler but being attacked by Ford vigorously; and commercial, owned
]> primarily by GM and Ford. The EuroVan comes across mechanically as a
]> competitor to the front-drive, car-based people movers, but has the
]> style of a commercial van. Since GM and Ford commercial vans can be
]> bought (with V6s) for less than a EuroVan, VW hasn't much chance of
]> taking that market, and it just lacks the style to take many sales from
]> the Chrysler minivans in the people-mover market.
]
] Interesting. You're saying the the Vanagon has more "style" than the Eurovan,
]despite the newer vehicle's more sophisticated chassis, better aerodynamics,
]cleaner looks, better driving position and more powerful engines?
Nope. Never said that. I happen to believe it, but I neve said it. My
point was that the EuroVan is similar enough to the Chrysler vans to be
compared to them by American buyers, and it comes up short in the style
department. Since the Vanagon is radically different, I don't feel it
has to compete in style...either you want a rear-engined, short-wheelbase
van with lots of room, or you don't.
] The definitive people mover in Europe is the Espace- sophisticated, powerful
](top of the range V6 engine gives 120 mph and 0-60 in 10.3 seconds) and classy.
I'm familiar with the Espace. I seem to recall that Renault is about to
come out with a new-generation one. This vehicle occupies a similar place
in the European market to the Chrysler minivans here.
]The VW doesn't have the same grace but is more upmarket than the equivalent
]minibuses from Ford etc.
I'm less familiar with the Ford and Bedford lorry-based minibuses, but
believe they're similar in concept to the Ford and GM minivans here.
] In the van market the VW is a little more expensive than the alternatives but
]is perceived as a better quality product. It seems this isn't the case in the
]US.
Not anymore. VW had that reputation at one time, but threw it away. The
dealership organization has declined, and the Mexican Golfs and Jettas
have not had much success meeting American quality expectations. Remember
that this country is crawling with trouble-free Hondas, Toyotas, and Buick
LeSabres. (Buicks?? Yes, Buicks.)
] I think that if VW could solve its dealer problems and then start remarketing
]its range in the US in such a way that it is perceived as a good quality,
]durable product then it should be able to recover some ground. From what I've
]heard the US buyer expects VWs to be cheap and basic, and is therefore taken
]aback by the current cost of the cars.
There is a segment of the market that feels this way, but at one time VW
had convinced a significant chunk of buyers that it represented the first
step on the German quality ladder. They've largely managed to eradicate
that perception in the past few years.
]I think this is partly because the US
]market expects relatively expensive cars to be tricked out with all sorts of
]gizmos rather than built better (preferably both!) and VWs are notoriously
]basic.
I don't deny that to be a factor, but it's only part of the story. Not
everyone here is looking for the most gadgets per buck, regardless of what
the folks at Mitsubishi think.
]I suppose part of the problem is that if people don't keep cars for
]long (new car every 3 years?) then it doesn't matter to the first owner whether
]it was designed to last for 7 years or 15!
Americans are keeping their cars longer than ever before. I can't recall
actual numbers (too old and senile), but I think I read that the average
new car buyer now keeps his car twice as long as was the case in some base
year in the sixties.
One the other hand, I see no evidence that VWs are currently being built
to last any longer than Toyotas and Hondas. My wife's Honda we bought
new in 1986, now has 113,000 miles on it, and maintenance beyond what you
would consider routine has amounted to a clutch. It drives like a new
car and even looks like one. A friend here at Tandem has an Acura Integra
(Honda Quint in some markets) that is based upon the same Civic chassis as
my wife's, and at 250,000 miles it has been trouble free (and looked new
until someone hit the rear week before last). None of my VWs could be
accused of being as trouble-free.
] In my opinion VWs won't be cheap again (not for a while, anyway) the labour
]force is just too expensive and the shipping costs too high (hey, why not
]build a factory in Mexico! :-) so they need to change the customers ideas in
]order to be successful in the US again.
They'll not change the customers ideas until they can figure out how to
make cars that hold up as well as the Japanese ones (as the American com-
panies have been having to do) and sort out their serious dealership prob-
lems.
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jerry Dunham, MSE hoosier@rider.cactus.org (512)244-8598
Tandem Computers, Inc. dunham@mpd.tandem.com
Integrity Systems Division dunham_jerry@tandem.com
"A healthy male adult bore consumes each year one-and-a-half times his
own weight in other people's patience."
- J. Updike
