Date:         Sat, 16 Apr 1994 13:33:22 -0500 (EST)
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         RGOLEN@umassd.edu
Subject:      EV vs. Vanagon vs. Caravan....Just the Facts M'am...

Gerry Skerbitz, our hallowed list manager, writes  :-)  :

>Afterthoughts:
>I've only glanced at the Eurovan -- not ridden one, so I'm not an expert,
>but if I remember, there isn't the storage space behind the last seat like
>the vanagon (Please correct me publicly if I'm wrong on that).  I guess,
>for me, that makes it a minivan.  Consumer Reports also lists it as "Body
>style: minivan"  What make it different from the Vanagon is the nose. That
>engine takes up precious passenger and cargo space. The competition for 
>the Eurovan on body styles alone in the U.S. is still the other minivans 
>in the public's eye.  Technically right or wrong, that's the perception.

To which Ric Golen, defender of EuroVans replies:

Gerry, your memory is flawed. The EuroVan has a luggage space behind
the rear seat (on an elevated platform) that is 28" deep by 58" wide.
Besides the elevated platform (which is removable) there is the floor
area which extends from underneath the platform to below the rear seat.
So in a sense you have two storage areas, one 28"deep by 58" wide and
a second approximately 50" deep and 58" wide. Thats all where the engine
went in the previous van. I would say that having a shelved upper portion
and a large lower portion, more than makes up for the intrusion of the front
engine wouldn't you?

Besides, if you have looked at the architecture of the vehicle, the front
wheels are well forward of the driver, so that the drive train does not
intrude into the cabin like the rear-engined vans, or Ford/Chevy/Dodge
full sized vans.

As to dimensions, I only have a 1970 van brochure (which lists the
ENTIRE type 2 range - including Kombi) to go by, so I will assume the
dimensions are approximately the same.

1970 Type 2 Van:
Rear compartment dimensions:
Rear hatch to back of front compartment - 110.1 inches
Width of compartment 61.8 inches
Flat, useable floor space - 74" long
Rear Seating Space available: 74" by 61.8"
Behind rear seat area - 28" by 61"

1993 EuroVan:
Rear compartment dimensions:
Rear hatch to back of front compartment - 102"
Width of compartment 58.5"
Flat, useable floor space - 102" long (seats removable in 10 min)
Behind rear seat area - 2 areas, 28.5 inches by 58.5 (not counting
the area UNDER the rear seat)

1986 Caravan (neighbor's shit box):
Rear hatch to back of front compartment - 78"
Width of compartment 49"
Behind the seat area - 21"

Ok, lets process some numbers:

Total useable area:

1970 VW van:   6804 square inches

1993 EuroVan:  5967 square inches, plus second storage area: 1667 sq in.
               for a total of 7634 square inches

1986 Dodge Shitbox: 3822 square inches.

What I see here is one of two things. The first VWUS is doing a piss-
poor job of selling their product, or at least informing the buyer
about the product and how it is different, better than other vans; or
the second, most of you are taking your positions in this "discussion"
with little or no factual or actual EV experience. I will assume that
it is the former not the latter.




As to the "minivan" designation, we all know how RELIABLE Consumer
Reports is when it comes to VWs. On the dealer sticker for the EV
is the following: Vehicle Type:  Mid Sized Passenger Van, on
the door sticker with the serial number, the same. So I would suspect
that CR is full of shit. The above numbers bear me out. The EV is 
a lot closer (87% of floor area of 70 VW, or 112% with additional
storage space) to the size of the 1970 van, than it is to the 
Caravan (caravan has 64% of the floor area of the EV).


As Sgt. Friday used to say: "Just the facts...."


Ric