Date:         Wed, 20 Apr 1994 20:48:59 -0600 (CDT)
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         dunham@mpd.tandem.com (Jerry Dunham)
Subject:      Re: One last EV/Vanagon/Caravan observation....

]From vanagon@lenti.med.umn.edu  Mon Apr 18 08:38:25 1994
]From: RGOLEN@umassd.edu

Yes, yes; I know.  I'm way behind on reading my mail.  I'm on sabbatical,
fer cryin' out loud.  I only came into work today because they had a BBQ
dinner and I NEVER miss out on free food.

]First off, I would like to thank Gerry Skerbitz, Steve Johnson and
]our "trivial expert" Joel Walker for a most stimulating and interesting
]discussion ( or was it an arguement...remember that old Monty Python
]sketch anyone?) on Vanagons, EVs and Chrysler shitboxes (can we all
]agree on the Chrysler shitbox designation?....after all they don't
]even have a ladder frame like a VW) this weekend.

I would like to argue that Chrysler T-115s are NOT shitboxes at all.  I
have been quite impressed with several I've been close to the owners of.
I think the real problem here is that they are sold as vans, when in fact
they are not; they are tall station wagons.  The Nissan Axxess, the old
Toyota Tercel wagon, the late Honda Civic wagon, and the Colt Vista are
other examples of this class.  For some reason, this class goes entirely
unrecognized, and most folks work hard at forcing the members of the class
into other classes, calling the vehicles either vans or regular station
wagons.  Tall wagons are very useful vehicles that give better space utili-
zation than traditional station wagons of the same basic size while still
driving very much like a car.  There are many people out there for whom a
tall wagon is the right vehicle; I'm just not one of them.

I recognize the difference between a van (whatever the size: mini, midi,
maxi...) and a tall wagon.  All the VW vans have been real vans, as are
the American Astro, Safari, and Aerostar (now THERE's shitbox!), but all
the VWs offer more engineering sophistication, which I happen to appreciate
more than Joe Chevy (I don't like cart-sprung rear ends).  The real problem
is that the consumer's PERCEPTION of the EV is that it's VW's answer to the
Chrysler "vans" and doesn't measure up.  Of course it doesn't for someone
who really wants a tall wagon.  VW has an uphill battle convincing people
to compare it to the real vans, where it's greater sophistication could win
over at least those who can understand what that means.  The lack of a V6
is about to be fixed (next year) for those who want to compare it to the V6
powered American vans.  I LIKE the EV; I just like the layout of my Vanagon
better.  I just wish it had a better powerplant.

I hope I didn't relight the flame war.  I just felt another point of view
would be useful.  And the fact that I used to be an engineer in Chrysler's
Power Train Group has no bearing on my coming to their defense.   :-)

-- 
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Jerry Dunham, MSE                                             (512)244-8598
Tandem Computers, Inc.                                dunham@mpd.tandem.com
Integrity Systems Division                          dunham_jerry@tandem.com

			  Computium Ergo Sum Foodium
		   (I am programming therefore I am hungry)