Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 19:57:21 -0600 (CDT)
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From: dunham@mpd.tandem.com (Jerry Dunham)
Subject: Re: Sportsvans: the saga continues ...
]From vanagon@lenti.med.umn.edu Tue Apr 12 17:19:13 1994
]From: Joel Walker <JWALKER@ua1vm.ua.edu>
]
]having watched all those comments fly by, i thought i'd put out a few of
]my own:
]
]i don't think a reworked/update Vanagon would go well in the u.s. i think
]it is a problem with Volkswagen as a company ... i think that basically they
](the company) have lost touch with the u.s. market, and, because of problems
]with personnel in dealerships (salespeople who didn't know the products or
]the history of the company; service people who were not trained on vw cars
]and especially buses; parts people who don't know what they are doing), VW
]lose the confidence of the volkswagen-buying public. imho.
While I don't agree entirely with Joel's statement about an updated Vanagon,
I certainly agree with the rest.
]the Vanagon had several 'faults' as a van for america:
]* you had to climb up into the vehicle. i've had just about every female that
] ever rode in my bus complain about that. even the step up into the sliding
] door is higher than they want it to be. note that it is NOT higher than,
] say, a Chevy Astro (which, in my opinion, is a large, lumbering Truck!),
] but it is high.
My wife has complained about this, too, but then she'd rather drive a
Honda Civic. While this puts off some customers, sitting high is a
feature to others. I think it's a matter of knowing what your targeted
market wants and doing that. If VW thinks they can sell head-on against
the Chrysler minivan juggernaut, I'd like to know what they're smoking.
]* there is no 'nose' on the vehicle, by which the driver (or especially the
] passenger) gauges just how soon impending doom would arrive. my mother
] would try to mash her feet through the floor when i pulled into a parking
] place with a meter or wall ... she was certain that i was going to hit it.
] never did. this lack of nose also contributes to the 'unsafe' opinion
] about Vanagons. after some of the wrecks i've seen involving american iron
] in which the engine moved back into the front seat, i'm not so sure that
] a front engine is safer.
I agree with every bit of this. I must admit to getting a certain sadistic
pleasure from some of the reactions I get from people who are first-time
bus riders. I still rather think this appeals to some folks while putting
others off.
]* the front seats are directly over the front wheels. this gives a strange
] feeling to one's butt when one slams on the brakes. :) you don't get this
] in a 'regular' car or chrysler minivan.
I guess I don't quite understand this one, and have never had anyone
comment on it, either.
]* it doesn't fit into most american garages very well. or automatic car
] washes at the gas station.
It fits MY garage just fine. It only take up about the same floor space
as a Honda Accord, so you must be referring to the height, but it's fit
in every garage I've owned without hitting. I know Westphalias are a
different problem, though. I take my Vanagon through the same car wash
my wife uses for the Honda.
]the chrysler mini-van, imho, sold so well BECAUSE it was nearly a car. but
]also because it was NOT a station wagon ... which had a reputation of Huge
]Hard-to-Park Housewife Hardships. and Yuppie-moms didn't want that. the
]chrysler mini-van was also light and basically nimble on its feet (as opposed
]to the Astro and Aerstar ... both large and somewhat ponderous in nature).
]it also fits easily into garages and goes through car washes with no problems.
I agree with this, but still question the wisdom of trying to compete
with the Chrysler minvan head-on. GM tried with the TransSport with
only minimal success, and they have a huge dealership net. What makes
anyone think VW can do it with the EuroVan (which isn't as low or as
carlike as the Chrysler)?
]Aside: what amazes me is that Chevy and Ford took TEN years to even try to
]come up with competition for the Voyager/Caravan. it's like they didn't
]really believe it was selling that well.
I think they thought it was a fad that would fade. Boy were THEY wrong!
]i personally think the Vanagon has more 'style' ... whatever 'style' is ...
]than the Eurovan. the Eurovan, to me, is a combination of the chrysler mini-
]van and the chevy astro. it's too large to compete with the chrysler and
]costs too much to compete with the chevy.
Again, I agree with all of that.
]i think one of the things to remember here is that vw bus people have always
]been a little bit out of the 'mainstream' of american (european/u.k. as well?)
]culture. have you folks ever noticed that other people (who don't have vw
]buses/vanagons) will ask you 'Why do you drive that thing'?
I can relate. I get even more people asking me why my PRIMARY transpor-
tation has been a motorcycle for the past 30 years.
]now, i've been driving vw's since 1958, and have been driving vw buses since
]since 1970, so i will admit to a great deal of bias here. or habit, if you
]want to call it that. but i've driven other vans ... dodge, chevy, ford ...
]on long trips, and even with the uncomfortable-after-two-hours seats in the
]'bread-loaf' buses, i'd still rather have a vw bus. i just don't like the
]engine between next to my right leg. and riding in the front passenger seat
]is worse. the chrysler mini-van, to me, is much better than its big brothers,
]but it has no 'personality' ... i don't know of any other way to describe it.
]maybe it's all the plastic inside.
]
]and that's the way the Eurovan strikes me: no 'personality'. and the wheel-
]well makes my left leg uncomfortable. and i kept hitting my head getting
]into the driver's seat.
I'm not quite sure how to respond to the "personality" issue, since that
is an entirely personal thing. The EuroVan does seem rather more generic
than the Vanagon, if that's what you mean.
]but that's ME ... and i'm not everybody. i can see a lot of things about the
]eurovan for people to like. i can see a lot of things about the chrysler
]mini-vans for other people to like. my sister has one. five people here at
]work have one. but we have a chevy astro as a work truck here ... and i can't
]see anything about it that i think is likeable. haven't tried the new big
]dodge vans yet, but i suspect they are the same as before, with only a outer
]sheet metal change.
Yes, the new Dodge full-size van is just new sheetmetal on the old vehicle.
The new (new a couple of years ago, anyway) Ford van shares a lot with its
predecessor, too, but is more of a new design than the Dodge. GM doesn't
even make any pretense of redesigning their big van; I guess they figure
plumbers won't care, anyway.
]so why, with all the aggrevation and heart-ache with the water-boxer engine
]and my very low opinion of dealer service departments, do i keep driving
]vanagons? and why do i want another second one? and why do i want a double-
]cab vanagon pickup truck? because i have found that the design fits my idea
]of a van almost exactly: there are very few things i would change about the
]vanagon to make it 'perfect'. i really like it's design. i feel 'comfortable'
]in it. and i think that is what is important with a car.
Bingo!
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jerry Dunham, MSE hoosier@rider.cactus.org (512)244-8598
Tandem Computers, Inc. dunham@mpd.tandem.com
Integrity Systems Division dunham_jerry@tandem.com
"A healthy male adult bore consumes each year one-and-a-half times his
own weight in other people's patience."
- J. Updike
